Why there will be no XL pipeline: Warren Buffett

[trader4]

: [e-mail]:

BS. IT's *not* experimental. It's just the fastest and newest such train. It's in commercial operation. It's how you get the fast trains you're bitching about. WTF do you want? First you crow about how smart the Chinese are with regard to high speed trains. Then you call them experimental and not very practical. Make up your mind. They are not experimental. They are very expensive and because of a whole host of issues, principally economic, they are of limited appeal, which is why they are not widely deployed everywhere.

And here's some breaking news for you:

"The fastest trains in the UK operating domestic services are the Intercity 225 trains operated by National Express East Coast. These trains run at a maximum speed of 125mph and average 112mph between London and York. "

Well, well, well. Amtraks Acela runs at a top speed of 150mph.

Is that when you Britts plan to build it?

[trader4]

Maybe it's time for a closer look at what the UK actually has. You've probably noticed harry referencing the Chinese. This is why:

"The fastest trains in the UK operating domestic services are the Intercity 225 trains operated by National Express East Coast. These trains run at a maximum speed of 125mph and average 112mph between London and York. "

Amtrak's Acela has a top speed of 150mph.

[The Daring Dufas]

Cousin Harry, The U.S. Air Force is developing jet fuel derived from biomass. At the present time it's too expensive to replace dinosaur juice but if petroleum ever becomes unavailable bio-fuels could take the place of those derived from petroleum. ^_^

TDD

[trader4]

Not to mention it seems rather odd that the Keystone folks, who's business it is to build the pipeline, who's money is on the line, would be building it if it's not competitive with the railroad for moving oil.

[Kurt Ullman]

My understanding, though, is that the dilution things can be pulled out at the other and used. So, in that case, you get a two-fer.

>

[Attila Iskander]

# # The passengers are the ones that wont be able to afford air fares.

#

So you're just pulling shit out of your ass again ? What do you need to do that in public ?

[Moe DeLoughan]

The Keystone folks get the sweet, sweet corporate welfare aka taxpayer subsidies. That's how it's competitive. That, and their ability to use eminent domain against property owners trying to hold out for more money.

That's another railroad win - no need to force property owners off their land, since the railroad is already in place.

[Attila Iskander]

Indeed It's a "magic English train"...

[Attila Iskander]

There's a LOT of things that harry ignores to fullfill his la-la-land train fantasy

[Attila Iskander]

# # It's called being insular, parochial.

#

yeah But with you as an example, there really is NO NEED to be plugged in to the stupidities of Europe We'll wait till you have another World War..

[Attila Iskander]

# # The economics of Concorde fell through when the price of oil rose. #

NOPE The economics of Concorde never made it ouf of the hole from the get-go

rest of idiocy snipped

[Yug Emoh]

trader4 @ optonline.net used improper usenet message composition style by unnecessarily full-quoting:

============ Acela Express trains are the only true high-speed trainsets in North America; the highest speed they attain is 150 mph (240 km/h), though their average is less than half that speed.

The Acela has become popular with business travelers, and by some reckoning has captured over half of the market share of air or train travelers between Washington and New York. Between New York and Boston the Acela Express has up to a 54% share of the combined train and air market. =============

The Acela Express train sets comprise two power cars and six passenger cars each. The current fleet started service between 1999 and 2000.

The trains were made by a consortium between Bombardier (75%) and GEC Alsthom (now Alstom) 25%. Bombardier is a Canadian company, and Alstom is French.

Amtrack announced (in Dec last year) plans to replace it's fleet of Acela trains, with the first of the new trains to enter service in 5 to

7 years. This story doesn't mention who is going to be making the new trains:

[Kurt Ullman]

Having already used imminent domain to force people off their land 100 or so years ago.

[gfretwell]

I understand this is going to be a buried pipeline and there is no reason why the farmers can't grow corn over that pipe once it is in the ground.

[trader4]

Reference for that claim, please......

Yawn.... That has been used as much by the railroad folks more than for any pipeline ever built, so it's a moot point.

There is no need, for the most part, to force anyone off their land because of the Keystone pipeline. They need an easement to put the pipe underground. For that, owners get a tidy sum. I saw a rancher on TV last month very happy with the amount he got. They put the pipeline through his pasture, pay him a lot of money and after it's done he doesn't even know it's there. Now the railroad, they do force folks off their property, at least more so then a pipeline. Cows can still graze on land above a pipeline. With railroad tracks, not so much........

[gfretwell]

The real advantage to the Acela is on the New York end. People go to New York to get to Manhattan and that is where the train stops. (Penn Plaza) The airports are an ugly cab ride from downtown and they routinely get overloaded so you can circle for an hour or more. The DC end is not so great. If you are not going to Capitol Hill.the downtown station is not that handy. Most of the actual business is moving outside the beltway. There is a beltway station but it is 2 o'clock on the Beltway and the business cluster is in the 270 corridor at 10 o'clock, 30 miles or more away,so you still need a car.

It is still the best example in the US of where the train makes sense (if you live near DC and you are going to Manhattan). I assume that is similar on the Boston leg. They are talking about a high speed train here in Florida from Tampa to Orlando but I am not sure who would ride it. It might make better sense to build a commuter light rail line at both ends

[Dean Hoffman]

There is a possibility of high speed rail in California. A bit here:

(Yahoo news)

[John Albert]

A question (rhetorical, of course).

Let's suppose for a moment there was a high speed train to Detroit from Chicago. Or, to Detroit from Cleveland. Or, to Detroit from ANYwhere.

Seriously -- how many folks want to go to Detroit?

[John Albert]

The reason more oil is moving by train (at least from north-to-south) is that the government won't give the go-ahead on the Keystone pipeline.

So, the oil is still "moving" -- by whatever means works...

[John Albert]

All the grade crossings between New York and D.C. have been eliminated. There haven't been any grade crossings between New York and New Haven since the early 1900's. There are about five or six grade crossings left between New Haven and Boston, and they aren't in the high-speed areas.

Grade crossings are a non-issue in the Northeast Corridor.

(I worked on Amtrak for much of my 32 years in railroading. However I, too, believe that "high-speed rail" is pretty much a public-money-eating boondoggle in the USA...)