I'm not having much luck finding hardware for a 30"x80" door that is
similar to a flipper door for a cabinet (pivots and slides into a
recess). The door needs to be a bi-swing door AND a pocket door -
kind of an oddball situation between a dining room and a kitchen.
I found some Euro stuff that only swung one way, but I'm drawing
blanks with the bi-swing. Anybody know of a manufacturer that makes
the hardware, or knows of an installation I might be able to track
re: "The door needs to be a bi-swing door AND a pocket door..."
I don't have a source for the hardware but you have certainly piqued
Why does the door have to be a 3-way? Pocket for full open convenience
and parties, and bi-swing for privacy but ease of serving?
What about a split single-swing and pockets on both sides? Too narrow
for that solution, I bet.
Exactly. The door has to be in a location where it would block a
cabinet when it was open, so someone going into the cabinet while the
door is closed could get smooshed behind the door when it was opened.
Yep. That would be like cafe/saloon doors - you'd be getting hit by
two doors not one.
Hey, what about a bi-swing hung on rails that allows the door to slide
*along* a wall not into it?
Kind of like a barn door is hung. With some creative decorating, it
could add a interesting design feature to the room.
I'm doing that with the door between the living room and the back
hall. It's a bearing wall and I can afford to lose a few inches in
the back hall.
Another perspicacious comment! Yep, I'm looking into that avenue, but
if possible, I don't want to reinvent the wheel, and if I do have to
build something myself, I want to see some other people's solutions.
I'm not sure I'm understanding what you want, but here goes:
Using flipper door hinges, how about mounting one aspect of your door
to the wall framing and attach the other aspect of the door to the
first door, also using flipper door hinges. The first "door" slides
along the wall and the second "door" slides along the first "door".
Does that sound reasonable for your application? ... Or did I not
understand your question/problem? I've never attempted what I've
described, so not sure how that would work.
Okay, now we're both confused! I'm trying to get a door that will
recess into the wall like a pocket door, but when it's closed it will
operate as a swinging door that opens 90 degrees both directions of
travel. I'm not sure how the setup you mentioned would do that. If I
understand what you're saying, there'd be a 90 degree swing one way,
but you could choose which way you wanted it to swing.
What I need is akin to the kitchen door in a restaurant (single door,
small restaurant), that also gets entirely out of the way.
No problem. I was also having difficulty when I was DAGS and calling
around to the big hardware companies to pick their brains. There
doesn't seem to be a universally used term for what I've always known
as a biswing door. When searching the only thing that gave consistent
results was 'kitchen door' and the results were always commercial
doors...fugly, metal and/or very expensive. I hope I can get out of
this relatively cheaply...
It is clear that you really shouldn't be doing this project, since you
no idea of the terminology used as related to doors and hardware...
What you are looking for simply does not exist...
A door that swings in BOTH directions can ONLY be a PIVOT door...
They need not be: fugly, metal and/or very expensive... You are
for pivot hinges to fit to YOUR door... HINT: Pivot hinges come in
and are attached to the top and bottom of the door very close to the
hinge side... These hinges are very *fun* to install as they have
components which must be hidden below the floor and in the wall/
above the opening...
Hmmm...I haven't read the whole thread but it seems to me you need a door
within a frame. The frame slides and the door is secured to it by the
kitchen style hinges. If needed, the door could also have vertically placed
bolts at top and/or bottom to keep it from swinging.
Problem with that is there is a horizontal bottom (on the frame) that would
have to be stepped over when the frame is closed and the door is open.
Stepped on too. Perhaps an upside down "L" could be used for the frame?
Keep the vertical part of the "L" from moving with bolts and by being
partially contained within the pocket?
Interesting. That does address most of the problems...presents other
ones, but I think it's a worthy idea to investigate. Having the door-
in-frame operable as a unit might be heavy and thus a bit difficult
for a woman to operate. Thanks for the idea.
Right. I like the weight of a solid core swinging door. Having such
a door swinging opened and closed would put a fair bending moment on
the sliding part. I haven't had a chance to investigate your idea and
figure out how to deal with the details that would tend to make it
problematic over time, but I will.
I certainly don't want to install a call-back magnet. I'd rather tell
them it can't be done, but I _hate_ doing that.
Another thought prompted by your exchange with Evan...
In addition to the commercial bi-swing hinges, one could make one's own
pivot hinges either by sizeable wood or smaller metal posts - maybe nylon or
delrin? - in the door top & bottom that go into matching holes on the frame
or by "knuckling" the door and frame edges. Obviously, either would need
some sort of washer to keep the door aligned and overcome friction.
If you ever find one, please post pictures or a link. I grew up in the
business, and still get to see lots of high-end custom houses on the
annual trips to visit my father the house designer. I've never seen a
door setup like that. Lots of reasons it would be very hard to do and
make reliable. There would have to be a C-shaped frame on the hinge side
of door to hold the pivot points, mounted on top and bottom rails, which
would either require a channel in the floor or a visible notch in the
bottom corner of door. The pocket would have to be extra deep, to make
room for the sliding half-frame that holds the door. It would be like
the closet door from hell to adjust and square up and keep lubed. The
slightest bit of house settling or wear in the moving parts, and it
would want to jam up, or show a crooked gap on the jamb side. Yeah, a
good machine shop could make the parts, but it wouldn't be cheap.
Has client considered accordion doors? Some of them aren't actually
pug-ugly any more. (More like tiny versions of the collapsible walls
hotels use to split up banquet rooms.) Another alternative would be a
stacked pocket door- double or triple rails, with all the panels sliding
to one side. As you pull out the first one, it drags the others with it.
Not recommended for houses with kids, due to the finger-catching
characteristics. Any way to add a archway to the opening, with
extended-hinge doors that fold flat against the walls and stay out of
the way? (common trick in old buildings with airlock doors- in the mild
months the second set of doors basically vanishes.)
On Monday, August 2, 2010 at 11:39:05 AM UTC-4, RicodJour wrote:
Yes the trickiest part is finding hardware for that height.
Hafele has a great super expensive option.
HAWA - Concepta 25
Other options for 78" max
I hope this is the door type you are looking for.
I too am in search for one to accept 87" door that is not cost prohibitive.
Unfortunately it looks like the design will need to be altered for a shorter door.
Best of luck!
RicodJour hasnt' posted here for years, I think.
He still might need this hardware but if you really wanted to help him,
you should have emailed him too, but you're reading through Google
(usually a mistake) and IIRC they gut the middle of the email address,
so you can't. (OTOH, I thought google didn't let one reply to old
threads. Is that true or not? **) If you red with a real news server
and a real news reader (nothing to do with the Web) you could have saved
thousands of posts and found his email address from when he was still
OTOH, if you're just posting advertising, go away.
** If so another reason not to use google for newsgroups (except for
searching, like a spammer might do.
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