Trying to locate full size 'flipper' door hardware


I'm not having much luck finding hardware for a 30"x80" door that is similar to a flipper door for a cabinet (pivots and slides into a recess). The door needs to be a bi-swing door AND a pocket door - kind of an oddball situation between a dining room and a kitchen.
I found some Euro stuff that only swung one way, but I'm drawing blanks with the bi-swing. Anybody know of a manufacturer that makes the hardware, or knows of an installation I might be able to track down? TIA
R
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re: "The door needs to be a bi-swing door AND a pocket door..."
I don't have a source for the hardware but you have certainly piqued my curiosity.
Why does the door have to be a 3-way? Pocket for full open convenience and parties, and bi-swing for privacy but ease of serving?
What about a split single-swing and pockets on both sides? Too narrow for that solution, I bet.
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Exactly. The door has to be in a location where it would block a cabinet when it was open, so someone going into the cabinet while the door is closed could get smooshed behind the door when it was opened.

Yep. That would be like cafe/saloon doors - you'd be getting hit by two doors not one.
R
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Hey, what about a bi-swing hung on rails that allows the door to slide *along* a wall not into it?
Kind of like a barn door is hung. With some creative decorating, it could add a interesting design feature to the room.
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I'm doing that with the door between the living room and the back hall. It's a bearing wall and I can afford to lose a few inches in the back hall.

Another perspicacious comment! Yep, I'm looking into that avenue, but if possible, I don't want to reinvent the wheel, and if I do have to build something myself, I want to see some other people's solutions.
R
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I'm not sure I'm understanding what you want, but here goes:
Using flipper door hinges, how about mounting one aspect of your door to the wall framing and attach the other aspect of the door to the first door, also using flipper door hinges. The first "door" slides along the wall and the second "door" slides along the first "door". Does that sound reasonable for your application? ... Or did I not understand your question/problem? I've never attempted what I've described, so not sure how that would work.
Sonny
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Okay, now we're both confused! I'm trying to get a door that will recess into the wall like a pocket door, but when it's closed it will operate as a swinging door that opens 90 degrees both directions of travel. I'm not sure how the setup you mentioned would do that. If I understand what you're saying, there'd be a 90 degree swing one way, but you could choose which way you wanted it to swing.
What I need is akin to the kitchen door in a restaurant (single door, small restaurant), that also gets entirely out of the way.
R
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I was thinking bi-fold door, not bi-swing. My mistake.
Sonny
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No problem. I was also having difficulty when I was DAGS and calling around to the big hardware companies to pick their brains. There doesn't seem to be a universally used term for what I've always known as a biswing door. When searching the only thing that gave consistent results was 'kitchen door' and the results were always commercial doors...fugly, metal and/or very expensive. I hope I can get out of this relatively cheaply...
R
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Ok...
It is clear that you really shouldn't be doing this project, since you have no idea of the terminology used as related to doors and hardware...
What you are looking for simply does not exist...
A door that swings in BOTH directions can ONLY be a PIVOT door...
They need not be: fugly, metal and/or very expensive... You are looking for pivot hinges to fit to YOUR door... HINT: Pivot hinges come in pairs and are attached to the top and bottom of the door very close to the hinge side... These hinges are very *fun* to install as they have components which must be hidden below the floor and in the wall/ framing above the opening...
~~ Evan
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That's not the *only* way to have a door swing both ways. Think "cafe door" or "saloon door". Double-action hinges:
http://www.hardwaresource.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=42
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RicodJour wrote:

Hmmm...I haven't read the whole thread but it seems to me you need a door within a frame. The frame slides and the door is secured to it by the kitchen style hinges. If needed, the door could also have vertically placed bolts at top and/or bottom to keep it from swinging.
Problem with that is there is a horizontal bottom (on the frame) that would have to be stepped over when the frame is closed and the door is open. Stepped on too. Perhaps an upside down "L" could be used for the frame? Keep the vertical part of the "L" from moving with bolts and by being partially contained within the pocket?
--

dadiOH
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Interesting. That does address most of the problems...presents other ones, but I think it's a worthy idea to investigate. Having the door- in-frame operable as a unit might be heavy and thus a bit difficult for a woman to operate. Thanks for the idea.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

YW. I don't think weight would be a factor as long as it is distributed evenly, those little nylon wheels scoot right along. Torque might be.
--

dadiOH
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Right. I like the weight of a solid core swinging door. Having such a door swinging opened and closed would put a fair bending moment on the sliding part. I haven't had a chance to investigate your idea and figure out how to deal with the details that would tend to make it problematic over time, but I will.
I certainly don't want to install a call-back magnet. I'd rather tell them it can't be done, but I _hate_ doing that.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

Another thought prompted by your exchange with Evan...
In addition to the commercial bi-swing hinges, one could make one's own pivot hinges either by sizeable wood or smaller metal posts - maybe nylon or delrin? - in the door top & bottom that go into matching holes on the frame or by "knuckling" the door and frame edges. Obviously, either would need some sort of washer to keep the door aligned and overcome friction.
--

dadiOH
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RicodJour wrote:

If you ever find one, please post pictures or a link. I grew up in the business, and still get to see lots of high-end custom houses on the annual trips to visit my father the house designer. I've never seen a door setup like that. Lots of reasons it would be very hard to do and make reliable. There would have to be a C-shaped frame on the hinge side of door to hold the pivot points, mounted on top and bottom rails, which would either require a channel in the floor or a visible notch in the bottom corner of door. The pocket would have to be extra deep, to make room for the sliding half-frame that holds the door. It would be like the closet door from hell to adjust and square up and keep lubed. The slightest bit of house settling or wear in the moving parts, and it would want to jam up, or show a crooked gap on the jamb side. Yeah, a good machine shop could make the parts, but it wouldn't be cheap.
Has client considered accordion doors? Some of them aren't actually pug-ugly any more. (More like tiny versions of the collapsible walls hotels use to split up banquet rooms.) Another alternative would be a stacked pocket door- double or triple rails, with all the panels sliding to one side. As you pull out the first one, it drags the others with it. Not recommended for houses with kids, due to the finger-catching characteristics. Any way to add a archway to the opening, with extended-hinge doors that fold flat against the walls and stay out of the way? (common trick in old buildings with airlock doors- in the mild months the second set of doors basically vanishes.)
--
aem sends...

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On Monday, August 2, 2010 at 11:39:05 AM UTC-4, RicodJour wrote:

Yes the trickiest part is finding hardware for that height. Hafele has a great super expensive option.
HAWA - Concepta 25 http://www.folding-concepta.com/en/ http://www.hafele.com/us/en/external/blaetterkataloge/TCH_FC_2013/
Other options for 78" max
http://www.hardwaresource.com/hinges/cabinet-hinges/pivot-door-slides-676/heavy-duty-pivot-door-slides
http://www.wwhardware.com/drawer-door-slides/door-slides/pivot-door-slides
I hope this is the door type you are looking for. I too am in search for one to accept 87" door that is not cost prohibitive. Unfortunately it looks like the design will need to be altered for a shorter door.
Best of luck!
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On 03/24/2015 08:42 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

LOOK AT THE DATE!
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RicodJour hasnt' posted here for years, I think.
He still might need this hardware but if you really wanted to help him, you should have emailed him too, but you're reading through Google (usually a mistake) and IIRC they gut the middle of the email address, so you can't. (OTOH, I thought google didn't let one reply to old threads. Is that true or not? **) If you red with a real news server and a real news reader (nothing to do with the Web) you could have saved thousands of posts and found his email address from when he was still posting.
OTOH, if you're just posting advertising, go away.
** If so another reason not to use google for newsgroups (except for searching, like a spammer might do.
On Tue, 24 Mar 2015 06:42:06 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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