Surge Protectors

Is there a reliable low cost protector out there for my big screen tv and DVD/VCR
Are the plug in strips worth a shit?
Thanks Tom
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Same ones you use for computers; all the same rules apply too. Power strips as a rule have pretty minimal protection unless they're designed for the job. You really have to check out the specs on each one. Price isn't always a good indicator.
HTH,
Pop
: Is there a reliable low cost protector out there for my big screen tv and : DVD/VCR : : Are the plug in strips worth a shit? : : Thanks : Tom : :
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You can look for something that will cover cost for any damage to your equipment. Some ads say up to 25K or so for coverage. Personally, I looked at a 50" PDP sit in my LR until I had what I thought was the proper protection - then I plugged 'er in. Power surges or even brown outs, lighting, etc. can cause damage.

IMHO, they are great in the garage for an small items. I've seen a Tech department insist (elbow bending) a Safety department ban them so as to avoid equipment damage.
Oren "My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes."
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Details on effective protection recently were provided in the alt.windows-me newsgroup on 18 Dec 2005 entitled "Dead Computer :-)" also at: http://tinyurl.com/99ho2
Other information in alt.home.repair is entitled "Lightning protection AND putting a receptacle on UPS" starting 20 Dec 2005.
Yes, plug-in protectors do for the TV what they also do for a computer. Plug-in protectors can even make damage to powered off electronics easier. Many use word association as if it were science: "protector and protection sound alike - therefore must be same". Reality, the protector is ineffective without a short connection to protection. Those who don't learn why it works also don't know the difference between a protector and the protection. IOW they spend tens of times more money (per protected appliance) on protectors that basically enrich a manufacturer who hopes you never learn this; nor learn what a protector does.
Described are effective protectors as part of a secondary protection system AND inspection of your primary protection system. Reading is required in previous discussions that also provide sources of effective protectors. Those who recommend ineffective protectors also don't learn this fundamental fact. A protector is only as good as its earth ground. No earth ground (such as with plug-in protectors) means no effective protection.
twfsa wrote:

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twfsa wrote:

Avoid the lowest-cost strip protectors. Consumer Reports found they didn't protect very well compared to the higher-priced products from APC,Tripplite, Curtis, etc. Look for products that include RF filters consisting of both chokes and capacitors (cheaper ones have only the capacitors) because the rest of the protector will be built better as well.
A whole-house protector installed in the breaker box isn't very expensive and can shunt surges to ground better than any plug-in protector, and some also include protection for telephone and TV. In old homes the protection provided by the phone company may consist only of neon bulbs, which don't short as well as MOVs installed in newer homes.
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The IEEE says if your going to install surge protection you need to protect 2 of the 3 zones. Zone 1 is out cause that is the utility. That leaves Zones 2 and 3. Starting with your whole house surge protective device. It has a let through of XXXX and then with the point of use protector it is an incoming rating of YYYY. As long as the whole house let-through is less than the point of use your as good as it gets, cheaply.
Your garage door opener my advise a surge protector as well as your microwave and clothes washer/dryer mine all do.
The real problem is most of the cheapy stuff is based on MOV's, metal oxide varistors. These are tested ONCE for UL. Not twice or 3 times. ONCE. Do not forget to surge protect the coax, feeding your equipment.
Do you have a scope on your hunting rifle? What did you pay for the scope?
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Where does the IEEE says one must protect all zones? The spec defines what a protector would confront in each of three zones - A B and C. Where does that say such is required in each zone?
The utility is provides a primary protector. Inspection of is demonstrated in: http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html
Secondary protection is also called 'whole house' protector. It too is defined by the quality of and connection to single point earthing.
So where specifically is this IEEE demand for a third protection layer? And how does this protection layer do anything without a short connection to earth? IEEE defines three zones. That definition only defines what the protector would confront in each zone - so that protector can be designed also for human safety reasons. That does not say all three zones must be protected. Where specifically does the IEEE demand protection in all three zones? They define three zones. But where do they require protection in each?
SQLit wrote:

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SQLit wrote:

Anyone who owns a MOV-type protection strip should go immediately to <http://www.rbs2.com/fire.htm and read carefully.
--
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my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.
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You should read it carefully yourself. The recommendation in that report is to use a MOV supressor in conjunction with a surge arrester at the service entry.
Commodore Joe Redcloud
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What earth shattering news! Haven't electrical fires been started by virtually everything electrical at one time or another? Just plugging in too many extension cords into a multi outlet has started them. So have TV's, lights, outlets, etc. So, why should we be surprised that a multi-outlet surge protector might not start a fire on a rare occasion too?
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Wrong URL. I thought this was the one I read that suggested that every "hit" degrades a MOV. Instead, start with the article at <http://www.cob.org/fire/safety/surge.htm :
"All MOVs gradually deteriorate with use."
"The problem found with some MOV components is that over a 18 to 24 month period the materials used begin to break down. As the MOV ages, its operating characteristics change and it can become more sensitive and dissipate more heat."
...and I'll try to find the URL to the article I really meant to post.
--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.
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When properly sized, MOVs degrade with each transient. The manufacturer's chart has charts for number of transients, size of transient, and number of joules. More joules means the MOV life expectancy increases exponentally. However if MOV is grossly undersized, then conditions cited by www.rbs2.com cause an MOV to operate beyond what the manufacturer intended - become a fire hazard.
A minimally sized MOV may degrade on the first transient. On that chart is a curve for one transient. However there is no curve for zero. No MOV should be so grossly undersized to completely fail on the first transient. MOVs should only degrade - end up on the curve for 1, 10, 1000, or 10,000. Properly sized MOVs remain functional after every transient; must only degrade. Most manufacturers define 'degrade' as a 10% change in its operational voltage. Manufacturers don't define vaporization as acceptable. Vaporization is when a human grossly undersizes the protector.
clifto wrote:

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clifto wrote:

Some quotes from that paper:

More pictures demonstrate the problem: http://www.westwhitelandfire.com/Articles/Surge%20Protectors.pdf http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm or http://www.nmsu.edu/~safety/programs/gen_saf/surgeprotectorfire.htm http://www.ehs.washington.edu/LabSaf/surge.htm or http://www.cob.org/fire/safety/surge.htm http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?pageU6&parentU4
Meanwhile, appliances meeting standards even 30 years ago would withstand transients of up to 600 volts without harm. Internal appliance protection has been that robust. Therein lies existing 'point of use' protection. Protection is inside appliances. Protection that may be overwhelmed if a 'whole house' protector is not sufficiently sized and properly earthed.
Effectiveness of that protector is defined by earth ground. Why do APC, Tripplite, and Belkin only promote plug-in protectors? Meanwhile companies with superior reputations (Square D, Polyphaser, Intermatic, Leviton, Polyphaser, GE, Siemens, and Cutler Hammer) are selling 'whole house' protectors. Not just for human safety reasons. Because properly earthed 'whole house' protectors provide significant protection AND do so costing tens of times less money. Profits from ineffective plug-in protectors are immense since those products are promoted mostly on myths.
Above are pictures that ineffective protector manufacturers hope you never see.
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Low cost protection is worth what you pay for it. What ever you do, don't get sucked in by nitwits like w_tom, who will argue endlessly that absolutely nothing works unless they personally approve it. They are idiots.
Commodore Joe Redcloud
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According to Redcloud, a $100 Monster Cable protector is clearly superior. What Redcloud forgets to mention: the $100 Monster Cable product is electrically equivalent and just as ineffective as a $10 plug-in protector. But Monster costs 10 times more. Therefore Monster must be 10 times better?
Redcloud must 'kill the messenger'. His solution to technical naivety is more money, sound byte reasoning, and personal attacks. When he posts numerical specs and industry professional citations, then something useful may have been to contributed. Instead he will only do again what he usually does - personal attacks - 'kill the messenger'.
Commodore Joe Redcloud wrote:

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Typical emotional nonsense from W_Tom. He's right and the rest of the world is wrong.
Commodore Joe Redcloud
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I think I may fall over dead the day that Redcloud posts a technical fact - and does so accurately. Meanwhile, details on effective protection recently were provided in the alt.windows-me newsgroup on 18 Dec 2005 entitled "Dead Computer :-)" also at: http://tinyurl.com/99ho2
Plug-in protectors are sold on sound bytes. Effective protector for real world protection is promoted significantly more technical facts.
Commodore Joe Redcloud wrote:

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I've posted many correct technical facts. You have a delusion that your half-baked opinions are also "facts".

Commodore Joe Redcloud
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I have a couple of surge protector strips which were fairly cheap. They do not protect from brownouts.
Consider the repair costs for what you are protecting. If you are protecting $1000 + worth of equipment then $100 for a good device is a worthwhile investment.
Also consider the number of brownouts and outages you may experiance.
Protection against lightning strikes should be considered on any antenna cabling as well as the power wiring.
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They will not be much help from a real close strike but as the name implies should protect from a small surge. Best to pull the plug when lightning approaches.
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