Strange Screws

[Doug Miller]

Not correct.

Also not correct. But you seem impervious to logic, so I'm done.

[Stan Blazejewski]

I'd have to side with Odie here. About 15 'years' ago I pulled apart an (now) old 85meg RLL hard drive because the auto park wouldn't release. This was on the kitchen table & that drive is still working today .... you'd think it would have just plain worn out by now.

I noticed it had filters inside it to clean the air moving inside it so I expect it was all clean again within seconds if not minutes of firing up again.

The 'new' drives I've pulled apart for the magnets seem to have the air filters as well although I'd expect today's technology to be less tolerant to dirty air what with the amount of data that they pack into the smaller space but I still wouldn't expect it to die in "a few days or weeks".

[James Sweet]

Yes I've gotten nasty blood blisters on several occasions. Take apart any 3.5" hard drive and pull the magnets out, they'll stick to each other very strongly. If you can find an old 5.25" SCSI drive you'll likely find even bigger magnets.

[J. Clarke]

Hey, not his fault that the blasted screw was defective.

[J. Clarke]

Examine that filter carefully and you will find that its primary function is to filter the tiny amount of air moving through the pressure-equalization hole and that there is no mechanism by which all or any significant portion of the air circulating inside the capsule can be made to pass through it.

It dies as soon as something hard enough to scratch the platter or head and small enough to get wedged between them finds its way into that space.

In the real world people have tried this, and the drives typically died in anywhere from a few hours to a few weeks.

[Chris Lewis]

I did say capital offence, didn't I? ;-)

[Chris Lewis]

According to Keith Williams :

As far as I know, the patents are still in effect - reengineering or something silly like that.

Robertson's primary patent claims are a very precise taper on the tip, so as to be better at gripping and releasing the screw. Square drive normally has no taper.

Years ago the taper probably mattered more, because of manufacturing tolerance meaning that a taper was _necessary_ to get a good interference fit. These days manufacturing is more accurate, so a no-taper tip will grip too. Particularly in screws made to Robertson specs.

I recently bought some fairly high-grade square drive bits (these were part of a very large surplus shipment sent up from the states and resold here). They grip "real" domestic robertson screws real well. In fact, too well at times, and you have to give a bit of a yank to get them to disengage.

A recent bit set I bought had three distinct "cross heads" with slightly different geometries (and 3 sizes of each). One geometry was classic phillips. One, I believe, Pozidrive. Don't know what the other was called. Any, of a given size, would work more-or-less on a screw. But if you wanted a good tight grip to minimize cam-out (especially when you were going to drive a lot), you have to experiment with all three types (at one or two sizes each) to see which one did best.

At least with square/Robertson they're interchangeable at a given size, and if you pick the wrong size, it's real obvious (won't fit, or will be _very_ sloppy).

No. "Square drive" - interoperable with Robertson, but still not Robertson. The name is trademarked too.

I'm aware of that.

If you need one, you'd probably have to hurry. Most toilets sold here these days are low flow too.

[Rob B]

ok curiosity has the better of me , i have several pandora drives stuffed in a box, couple of old 420 mb scsi out of old sun classics some old 180 -

1.2GB drives lying around, i will be going on the magnet hunt shortly. too bad i just recently dumped an old 1 GB 5 1/2 full height scsi out of old HP/UX box it made a great desk anchor

[James Sweet]

Every single time I've ever had a hard drive clicking it was caused by a failure of the drive, I've never even heard of it caused by those other issues, with the exception being a couple of early very hot running 10K rpm drives. Bad drive is 99% the reason.

[Chris Lewis]

According to Folkert Rienstra :

What standard? trn set _the_ standard for more years than your newsreader has existed or you have been posting to Usenet.

There is no standard on attribution lines. Indeed, the only comments on this topic I've been able to google say _exactly_ what trn is doing - reply-to if present, From otherwise.

Funny, in the 20+ years I've been posting on Usenet (largely to groups specific to Usenet, Email and anti-spam standards, operations and practise), and the 10s of thousands of postings I've made to Usenet, you're the first to suggest it's wrong.

I don't think someone who uses Outlook as a newsreader should be lecturing anyone on newsreader "practise", let alone lecturing _me_ on spammer practises...

Perhaps Outlook's braindamage leads you to believe that spammers can't see reply-tos.

I assure you, spammers don't do this by hand. They use specialized NNTP clients, and scan _everything_ in the message - headers, bodies, everything. Valid Reply-tos are vastly more blaringly obvious than arbitrary hand munging.

Any spammer with enough neurons to be able to write a generalized demunger is sure going to notice reply-to.

If you don't want your email address scraped, don't include it in the posting.

[Mark Lloyd]

OK, but they do put them in prison for up to several years first.

[Keith Williams]

Haven't seen anythign that looks like an asymetrical Phillips. Sounds like a dumb idea.

I believe this is a "Clutch head". I've seen them used in mobile homes and RVs.

[Keith Williams]

Do you have a reference (patent number or such

...learn something new every day. I thought the patent was on the square drive itself, though the taper makes more sense, patent wise.

Sounds like an advantage to me. ;-)

Ok, so you can't call it a "Robertson", like you can't call it an "Xerox". ;-)

Maybe they'll have 'em in the border BORGs just for yanks. ;-)

[Arno Wagner]

Interessting.

Arno

[Folkert Rienstra]

So either you have a pathetically inadequate small sample or you are killing all your drives.

So you obviously should refrain from commen- ting as if you are the resident expert on this.

As if that can't happen to IDE drives.

In your case. You are known as a 'pathetically inadequate sample'.

[James Sweet]

Interesting but the drive is running on borrowed time. Perhaps you should store all your critical data on it and see how long it continues to operate like that.

[jug]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:08:11 -0500, Keith Williams wrote: newarkinone or others have security bit sets that mate to many of these oddball types. I work in an instrument shop and have to disassemble many tamper resistant things. Read carfully the discriptions before you buy. The Wiha set I got is not there any longer as it contains the posidrive. HTH

[Mark Lloyd]

It does lack bilateral symmetry, but is still radially symmetrical. Somewhat like a propeller.

A dumb idea. Probably to be used with dumb idea screws. That kind of thing is supposedly used to restrict access (for "security" reasons).*

&&&

• - Thinking of that sort of stuff, I was just posting (on another group) about the security check Windows Update is making. They call it "Windows Genuine Advantage". I wish they'd quit using words that make something look like an improvement, when all it does is REDUCE the functionality of the Windows Update site.

A lock doesn't add anything to the thing that's locked. It takes something away (access). Maybe it's something you WANT taken away, but notice that such taking away it is actually a NEGATIVE contribution. We don't need false labeling.

[Chris Lewis]

According to Keith Williams :

Turns out I wuz wrong, supposedly the last patent ran out in '64.

Wikipedia and other places have descriptions of why Robertson isn't more popular these days.

Here's a good reference, with link to Wikipedia:

I identify very much with this comment:

If you've ever worked with a Robertson screw, you immediately feel the urge to kick anyone who tries to make you use anything else, especially the Phillips screw with its easy-to-strip head.

Classic "square drive" without taper is just a variation.

[Mark Lloyd]

It often is. I get tired of screwdrivers that hold the screw just a little (more common with small screws). This allows the screw to fall off in an unexpected place, where it can be nearly impossible to find and retrieve.

I'll call it a Kleenex :-)