Strange Screws

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On Wed, 18 Jan 2006 06:12:09 -0000, snipped-for-privacy@nortelnetworks.com (Chris Lewis) wrote:

OK, but they do put them in prison for up to several years first.
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Mark Lloyd
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@bigfoot.com says...

I know they're already available special order, but I like the looks of stainless better anyway, and they're readily available.
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snipped-for-privacy@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/
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Or a little work with a strong, small flat blade, to bend it back and forth until it breaks off.
Isaac
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Should work as well, agreed. Unless you want to make warranty claims afterwasrds ;-)
Arno
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Arno Wagner wrote:

Hey, not his fault that the blasted screw was defective.

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wrote:

Too many maybes and negatives in this sentence for me to understand it.

They're also used in my car just to hold the trunk struts on. Nothing secret about that.
Don't get me started on what I used to do to elevators..

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David C. Partridge wrote:

No matter what you do with it, the drive WILL die. It's the unfortunate, but inevitable destiny that we all share.
I've opened hard drives again and again in very filthy rooms and they've never shown any ill effects over the days, or in some cases weeks, that I operated them. I do this all the time with old drives because I can see what's happening inside the drive while I test my control circuitry.
If I was manufacturing hundreds of thousands of drives and had to worry about warranties and customer satisfaction, I'd be doing it in a clean room. And I would buy a new drive before attempting to repair a damaged one. But you definitely can operate a hard drive without the cover for a while; probably long enough to do whatever you want if you don't dawdle.
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On 16 Jan 2006 08:17:07 -0800, " snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com"
....

My drive is clicking, and one important partition has a very bad directory structure. I'm not sure I can copy over even the good partitions before it "fails". If I open it, what would I want to do to stop the clicking, or to keep the clicking syndrome from preventing me from copying the data to a good drive.
(The bad partition is FAT16 (because I was still running win3.1 and win98 and wanted both OSes to access the parttiion.)
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The best way to ensure that you can copy over the good partitions is to _not_ open the drive first.
The safest way is to image copy the whole drive to a new drive. Put the old drive in a safe place, and try to repair the new drive's directory structure. Preferably doing a backup of the image you copied to the new drive before you diddle it, so you can start over _without_ touching the old drive.
The clicking is most likely retries (ie: gouged media, weak magnetics). You _can't_ fix that. You're unlikely to be able to repair even obvious mechanical faults either.
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On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 21:17:49 -0000, snipped-for-privacy@nortelnetworks.com (Chris Lewis) wrote:

No, I was going to open the drive last, after all my software solutions failed. I'm sorry I didn't mention that.

It only clicks if I try to access the bad partition, and even then not always . I can read the good partitions, but I'm told the clicking will get worse.

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The exact same thing happened to me. I was copying stuff off one of my old Seagate HDD, and there is one file that XP can't read, saying ECC error. I ran Seatools <http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/ on the drive and it identified 2 bad sectors with full diagnostic. I was able to get the file off the drive by having Seatools force a remapping of the bad sectors.
The remapped sectors are zeroed, so you're getting the file damaged, but it is better than not getting anything at all. The good thing is Seatools tries to identify and tell you which file is affected (although in short 8.3 name only), so you can decide if you want to risk it or not.
As for whether it will get worse, it depends on what caused the error. If it was just a transient glitch that caused the drive to make a bad write, it could be that it will develop no more error afterwards. If, say, the drive electronics is failing, you'll see more and more bad sectors (thus more clicking when you access previously-okay files). HDDs are cheap enough nowadays that I wouldn't risk my data on such a drive, but YMMV.
Stephen
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(Chris Lewis) wrote:

Strange how you have no such concerns with risking your data on a new drive without checking your powersupply/supply of power first.

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Just any unrecoverable read error (which isn't necessarily a physical one, it can just be a bad write, ie a logical error).

Yes you _can_, for the logical bad blocks.

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Not by opening the drive... About the only thing that someone that doesn't have major equipment can accomplish by opening it up is to replace the drive electronics. Some of our support people are quite good at resurrecting drives by swapping the electronics (they keep electronics sets from head-crashed drives). But the OPs problem is not the electronics.
Perhaps most of these types of failures (drive clicking - retries) can be "fixed" by causing the drive to write on the bad blocks, and then doing a fixdisk or equivalent. I'm familiar with somewhat older gear under UNIX, where you take the sector number from the error messages and use "dd" or write a small program to write a single block over the bad sector. Then run the file system repair utilities (ie: fsck) to clear/reclaim it.
These days with smarter controllers, they sometimes automatically self-repair (spare out the bad sector), or a simple low-level reformat of the drive will fix or spare it out. You might find a suitable procedure on the manufacturer's web site.
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Who says.

Only if the sector is readable with retries. Unrecoverable read error bad sectors are only reallocated on writes.

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Reply-To is not a useful approach for evading Usenet email address scrapers. If you don't want to get it scraped, _don't_ imagine that Reply-To will hide it.
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Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
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I told you not to use my Reply addres in usenet messages and here you go again. It's bloody obvious how to undo the spamtraps from that.

I don't imagine, you are. I just see what happens in practice.
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What standard? trn set _the_ standard for more years than your newsreader has existed or you have been posting to Usenet.
There is no standard on attribution lines. Indeed, the only comments on this topic I've been able to google say _exactly_ what trn is doing - reply-to if present, From otherwise.

Funny, in the 20+ years I've been posting on Usenet (largely to groups specific to Usenet, Email and anti-spam standards, operations and practise), and the 10s of thousands of postings I've made to Usenet, you're the first to suggest it's wrong.


I don't think someone who uses Outlook as a newsreader should be lecturing anyone on newsreader "practise", let alone lecturing _me_ on spammer practises...
Perhaps Outlook's braindamage leads you to believe that spammers can't see reply-tos.
I assure you, spammers don't do this by hand. They use specialized NNTP clients, and scan _everything_ in the message - headers, bodies, everything. Valid Reply-tos are vastly more blaringly obvious than arbitrary hand munging.
Any spammer with enough neurons to be able to write a generalized demunger is sure going to notice reply-to.
If you don't want your email address scraped, don't include it in the posting.
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mm wrote:

Unless you have the tools and skills to identify and repair a surface defect there's nothing much you can do by opening the drive that will "stop the clicking". Either copy as much as you can before it fails or send it to a data recovery company that has the necessary tools.

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mm wrote:

There's nothing you can do by opening it. If it's clicking that means it's unable to read the disc due to a hardware failure. I've had some luck placing the whole drive in the freezer for a couple hours and then copying the important stuff off immediately but if that doesn't work either pay the $ for professional recovery or throw away the drive because I can guarantee you won't fix it by opening it.
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