Replacing a wall switch that supplies power to a wall outlet

[Steve]

I don't know a lot about house wiring. My wife and I moved into a house a couple of years ago and are essentially trying to learn as we go.

We have an air conditioner in our bedroom. Next to the air conditioner is a wall outlet, but the wall outlet is dead (both the top and bottom receptacles) and we've had to power the air conditioner via a long extension cord. It would be much better to be able to power the AC via the outlet that's right next to it, but I'm not entirely sure what's wrong with that outlet.

It looks to me like the outlet is powered by a lever-action wall switch. This sort of arrangement is present in a couple of other rooms in our house...and the wall switch doesn't seem to be powering anything *else* at the moment. However, assuming this is correct, no power is reaching the wall outlet, no matter what position the switch is in. I know because I have tested it. Power *is* present at the wall switch, though. I know because I pulled the switch out of the wall and used a multimeter to see that there is 24 volts on it (well, 23.9 to be exact).

I'm guessing that the lever-action switch is simply defective and in need of replacement. However, is there something I ought to be looking for or considering before I run out and buy a replacement switch? Any thoughts and/or advice will be appreciated.

Thanks!

[The Postman]

A/C on a "long extension cord" is a fire waiting to happen...

[Nate Nagel]

Are you using a digital multimeter? 24V is too low for anything but phantom voltage, unless you've got a really odd house that was wired up with low voltage switches and relays (it's possible, I have heard of such houses, but never actually seen one IRL.)

It sounds like you really are a beginner (and I don't mean that in a bad way, everyone has to start somewhere) you should be reading 120VAC between one of the black wires and either a white wire (neutral) or a bare wire or the metal box (ground.) Make sure the meter is set on AC volts and make sure you're measuring as I describe - one probe on the black wire, one probe on neutral or ground.

If you get readings that still make you suspect the switch, kill the power to the circuit, remove the switch and measure the resistance between the two terminals. It should be infinite in the "off" position, and essentially zero (less than one ohm) in the "on" position. If it doesn't check out like that, replace it.

I'd recommend spending the extra ducats on a "spec grade" switch, it will last a lot longer than a regular builder grade switch. Don't use those awful push in from the back type wire connections either, always use the screw clamps.

nate

[Nate Nagel]

This too. I'd make sure that the cord is AT LEAST 14AWG preferably

12AWG and as short as possible. most are 16AWG max.

nate

[RBM]

Typically you'll have 120 volts at the switch, not 24. When you say lever-action, what exactly do you mean? Some older installations around the

60's used low voltage (24 volt) momentary contact rocker switches, that controlled latching relays for lighting and outlets. If this is the case, it's possible that a relay is bad. It would help to have pictures as well

[Claude Hopper]

Nonsense. They make adequate grounded extension cords for this.

[Claude Hopper]

24 volts is incorrect. You will have to track the wiring from the electrical panel, pull every outlet and switch and check that all wires are attached. (They do come loose or were never tightened properly) If you have GFI outlets, one on another wall could be tripped or even in another room. Check them ALL.

[Tony]

If you are reading 24 volts at the switch, and you are sure you reading the incoming power to the switch, then the incoming wire is "floating". That is, connected to nothing. This would be the normal condition of a wire from the switch to the outlet if nothing is connected to the outlet and the switch is off. However there should be line voltage on the supply side of the switch. It may be disconnected elsewhere, or the breaker may be off. The purpose, by the way, of the switch and outlet is to satisfy, in the cheapest way, the NEC requirement for either a light fixture or switched outlet for a lamp in the room.

** Posted from **

[Edwin Pawlowski]

My first suggestion is that you buy a book on basic home wiring. Switches don't supply power. They make or break the circuit that is supplying the power.

You should not have 24 volt in the system. It may be a defective switch, but you may have a bad ground someplace also. Replacing a switch is fairly easy and cheap so you may want to try that first. Be sure to kill any power that may be feeding the circuit. If you have doubts, get knowledgeable help.

[John Grabowski]

As RBM suggested, 24 volts is too low for a normal 120 volt system, but it is possible that you have a relay system in your house. The switches are different looking from regular wall switches and can only handle the lower voltage. If indeed you do have a low voltage relay system, next to your fuse box or circuit breaker box you should have a large metal box with several relays inside or protruding out the sides. There will also be two kinds of wire; one bunch for low voltage and the normal 120 volt cables.

This is not an easy system to diagnose because you need to troubleshoot the low voltage control system as well as the line voltage supply system. A common problem with this system is one of the relays going bad. The trick is to find the correct relay. Sometimes the original installer labeled them. This system has been discussed in this group before so try doing a Google search of this group. It would be helpful for us if you were able to post some pictures of the switch and of your circuit breaker box.

[metspitzer]

If the switch is a low voltage switch the wire will be noticeably smaller than house wiring.

One way to test the switch is to just disconnect the two wires from the switch and wire nut them together.

If the outlet works then you need another switch. If not, we need more info.

[terry]

Steve: This business of reading 'funny' voltages happens all the time on this group and others. Even the cheapest of the digital, hardware or big store meters are sensitive enough to pick up stray induced voltages which can occur when dead or unconnected wires run near live ones. The reading is usually meaningless! Much better to get a regular 120 volt lamp in a socket, 25 or 40 watts will do. Test it first to make sure it is working. Then connect one wire to the black wire to the switch and one wire to the metal ground of the switch box. If it lights you have a live wire from the fuse/breaker panel that far. If not you have break somewhere between the 'fuse/circuit breaker' panel and that point. Find out why ....... maybe the wiring goes through other outlets before the switch. Maybe one of those is faulty; or is there a GFI outlet upstream of the switch that has tripped? Preferably get someon to help you; and make sure that extension cord is not getting even warm to the touch. If so replace or switch it off immediately. The thin wires in some of those are sometimes several gauges smaller than the regular wall wiring to the outlet! When you have done that reply or post to the news group for next step of testing. BTW you don't have bad circuit breaker feeding that circuit do you? Also BTW those wall switches controlling an outlet were sometimes installed to control bedside or table lamps; as in some hotel rooms. Sometime they only controlled half the duplex outlet; the other half was on all the time for a bedside TV, radio, electric powered phone etc.

[RBM]

If it's a low voltage switching system, there will be at least 3 wires on the switches. Common- On-Off

[mm]

I sort of doubt you have any low voltage, but the other posts should have helped you figure out whether you do or not.

Regardless, if you want, you can start with this post first.

Regardless of how many volts you are reading, nothing you wrote in your post indicates you actually tested the switch.

First, where did you connect each wire of the meter?

One probe should be touching the metal box that the switch is in. That is almost certainly grounded, and you want one probe to be touching the ground. If actually testing still leaves doubts, post back.

Since the switch is out of the wall, you should have a good view of both screws to which wires are attached.

Your second probe should be touching first one screw and later the other, With one of the two screws, and the metal box for the other probe, you should show 110 to 120 volts AC. If you don't show that, flip the switch. and see if you get 110. If now you do, the switch is working.

If you show 110 to begin with, flip the switch aanyhow. If now you DON"T show 110, the switch is working. If you still show 110, you have the probe on the "hot" contact of the switch, the one connected to the wire that comes from the fusebox.

So now move the probe to the other screw. If the first screw was always hot, this screw should be hot only when the switch is in one of its two positions. If the first screw was hot in only one position, then this screw should be hot all the time. If one screw is hot all the time, and the other screw is never hot, the switch is bad. Any other situation and you don't know whether the swtich is bad or not.

I learned to go over this in detail last week by working with a friend who has a Ph.D. in math and has an important job with a defense contractor. But he still had not occasion to learn this basic stuff.

[HeyBub]

In addition to what others have said, the outlet may be the culprit. Often outlets are wired with "stab-in" connections. Stab-in connectors are notorious for making poor contact. If the outlet experiences a high load - such as an air conditioner - the connection may fail and the outlet goes dead, usually, though not always, quite dramatically.

In addition to your other diagnostics, replace the outlet. When you do, make sure the wires are attached to the outlet with screw-down connections, not the "stab-in" method.

P.S. The short explanation of the 24volts you measured is this: The 24V reading is meaningless. It neither confirms nor refutes the presence of power.

[Doug Brown]

And this has helped the OP's problem how?

[N8N]

um, by making him aware of a potential problem and a solution, before his house catches on fire?

it was more helpful than *your* post, anyway.

nate

[trader4]

ide quoted text -

I'd say the short explanation is this. If you read 24 volts at wall switch and think that's normal, then you should call an electrician because there is an obvious lack of basic fundamentals, which puts the safety of you and others in the house in jeopardy.

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

Small (5000BTU) A/C uses less than 5A, so that wouldn't be a problem. Of course that'd be different for a 16000BTU unit (maybe the largest that uses 120V).

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

Consider that you might not want a switch for that outlet. You can always bypass it, and use a blank wall plate.

[snip]

BTW, Also, you might consider posting somewhere other than Google. A lot of people have blocked googlegroups because of spam. There are free news servers like aioe.org (no registration/login required, although no binaries groups).