Replacing a FPE Panel

[Thomas Horne]

The actual problem is that FPE breakers in certain sizes have a much higher rate of failure to open on a fault to ground. This problem is especially severe in the double pole breakers. An FPE breaker of the affected type is unlikely to open on it's second actuation, if it's first actuation was a ground fault, even if the second event is a balanced overload. When I was questioned on this by a shop rocket know it all I asked if he thought his work was good enough to sign. He said yes. I then began to weld his name into the strut supporting the new work he had done using a conductor run off of an FPE breaker in the preexisting panel. All he said was "OK I see your point."

-- Tom Horne

[dpb]

Home Depot prices are $18-20 US for single pole, $40 for double for the Connecticut Electric FPEs. They had both configurations for the single pole but not GFCI, etc.

But, I've lived for 60+ yrs and never had a GFCI yet nor a need that I could determine, so doubt I'll start now! :) (Of course, again, this isn't new construction and what new work I'll be doing isn't residential, but rather farm outbuildings/shop, anyway).

Thanks for the info. Chris forwarded some other info off-group so have another alternative when do actually get that far.

[Dave Martindale]

I do see the point of GFCIs in wet locations. Our house has two GFCIs; both are the inexpensive outlet type, not the expensive panel breaker type. One is installed in the ensuite bathroom, with the outlets in two other bathrooms daisy chained from it so all are protected. The other GFCI is an outdoor outlet at the rear of the house. There are two other outdoor outlets and again they are daisy chained from the GFCI outlet so all are protected.

On the other hand, AFCIs are more dubious. As I understand it, the existing ones only protect against parallel arcs. For example, you have an extension cord in the bedroom (the only place AFCIs are now required) and regularly roll the bed over it so it gets frayed. *If* hot touches neutral or ground, the resulting high-current arc will trip the AFCI.

But I don't have any frayed extension cords anywhere (I fix them or throw them out first) and I don't roll the bed over any cords. So I can't see this type of AFCI being much use for their high price.

Dave

[Bud--]

GFCIs had the ground fault trip on the side of a regular breaker with the trip mechanism the same as 2 pole. Speculation, but I don't think it has been eastablished, that GGCIs might have the same unbalanced 2-pole trip problem (the trip is always unbalanced).

Last time I looked at the information sites, large breakers had not been tested. One might wonder about service disconnects which are likely to have an unbalanced trip.

-- bud--

[mc5w]

Here is the skinny on FPE:

1. There is a 2007 Federal Court ruling Manoma Realty Management versus Fed eral Pacific Electric where Justice Julie Sweeney ruled that there is no su ch thing as a Federal Pacific breaker that works. She ruled FPE to be flat- as-a-dead-snake liable for a year 2000 fire that involved defective breaker s that FPE knew were defective when they manufactured them in 1960-1962. Sh e extended the statute of limitations from 6 years to at least 41 years in New York state.

This court ruling also applies to the commercial bolted-in versions of the Stabloks which have the same inherently defective design. This also applies to the earlier multibreakers that were made by FPE and the two predecessor companies which were Federal Electric Equipment and Colt's Patented Fire A rms. Note: In 1942 Uncle Sam forced Colt to sell their Noark(R) electrical equipment division to the Federal Pacific Fuse Company forming Federal Elec tric Equipment which later became FPE.

Because of this ruling, Groupe Schneider tore up the brand name labeling ag reements that Federal Pioneer in British Columbia had with American Circuit Breaker Corporation and Unique Breakers Inc.

There is also a federal trademark infringement judgement that prohibits imp orting Federal Pioneer Stab-loks into the USA.

The only legitimate spare parts that a US citizen can purchase from Federal Pioneer are SquareD and Merin Gerin industrial breakers that are retooled and labeled for retrofit use in FPE industrial switchboards.

1. Federal Pacific admitted several times to the US Patent office in the 19

52 to 1981 time period and possibly beyond that the Stabloks, the commercia l bolted in versions of the stabloks, and the multibreakers on which the St abloks are based DID NOT WORK RIGHT and had serious design deficiencies.

1. Reliance, which wads the parent company, admitted to the Securities and Exchange Commission that FPE had defrauded Underwriters Laboratories.

2. In 1956 Underwriters Laboratories sued FPE over the matter that FPE was counterfeiting UL labels and applied them to circuit breakers and some othe r products that did not meet UL standards and had not been inspected or tes ting witnessed by UL inspectors. In 1957 FPE agreed to a bench judgement ag ainst them.

Michael R. Cole, Ohio Elec. Contractor Lic. No. EL45,008

605 North High Street Personal Mail #609 Columbus, Ohio 43215 Cellular: 216-832-7024 Email: [e-mail]

[bob haller]

on one very memorable day i had a outdoor light on a circuit all by itself. i shut off the breaker i believed powered this light, and began working on it:( as i found out the breaker i turned off did not power this light, the wires shorted, and the FPE breakker never did trip, the wires welded thems elves together, glowed brite red and eventually exploded showerinng me with red hot wire fragments.

i replaced a bunch of breakers with new expensive ones from home depot.

I should add I could of killed myself one day repairing a machine i service for work.

the trouble report said the key lock switch was hard to turn. i casually tr ied moving the lock switch and ended up across the room on the floor, loo king up at cieling:(. i provided a excellent hand to hand power line . he k eylock switch which switched 120 volt power line voltage had a internal sho rt which powered the body of the lock and key itself. the keyock isnt groun ded since its in a plastic bezel. i reported the safety issue first to the machines manufacturer, then when they didnt address it to UL, who also didn t care.

UL should of jumped on that.