Recirculating heat motor ... can it be quieted or bypassed (pic included)

[Martin C.]

I need advice on this heat pump motor:

I bought a house which apparently has a rather noisy heat-recirculation motor, which kicks in more frequently than we'd like, and which is situated just below living quarters ... hence the noise is rather obnoxious to the occupants. The noise doesn't sound like a high-pitched bad-bearing noise ... just a loud-motor humming noise. But it kicks on a lot (many times a day) so it's irksome.

Having never experienced a recirculating heat motor before, why do I need it anyway? I presume it is what gives me the nearly instant hot water in all faucets and shower heads in the house. Anything else?

I wonder aloud if I'd rather have a few minutes of cold water instead of incessant noise from this motor???

But, not knowing anything about the operation, I'm afraid to bypass it or even turn it off until/unless I talk to someone who understands these things.

Particularly, if I were to bypass it, how would I do that most easily for test purposes? If I cut the power to it, for example, would anything burn out elsewhere? Can I just re-pipe around it?

For those of you with these big black motors in your hot-water line near your hot-water heater, are yours as noisy as mine? Is there a quiet variety for example? Or are they all this noisy?

What's the best way to turn it off temporarily to test out whether the bliss of silence is better than a few minutes of cold water in the morning?

[Ed Pawlowski]

I'm not sure of the function in a heat pump. Water in baseboard systems is circulated by a motor and pump. Usually, very quiet pumps.

The mounting tool very half-assed. I'd find a better way to mount the motor so it is better isolated and that may eliminate or considerably reduce the noise.

[trader4]

It will give you instant hot water where it's located and fast hot water at any other faucets that share the same supply lines and are located near them.

That's up to you. It sounds like the motor happens to be a noisy one. Could replace it with one that isn't noisy.

You can just turn it off. Or put it on a timer so it only runs during those times of the day when hot water is likely to be needed.

Just unpower it. Can't see how it's connected to the AC. There is a control of some kind in the box by the water line that the cord runs to. Looks like it has settings for either temp, or time or maybe both. Can probably turn it off there. If you decide to remove it, yes you could do that too.

[EXT]

That looks like a real jury rigged system. The pump looks like a garden hose pump connected to the plumbing system with flexible laundry machine hoses. The top of the water heater looks like a flexible gas line is used for the output. The pump is just plugged in. Improper materials used and could easily leak and cause problems. If you don't understand plumbing, you should get a licensed plumber, not a "handyman" to look at it and correct the piping and replace the pump, if it is even needed, with an appropriate one.

[Martin C.]

I'd agree with you on the lousy workmanship as I listened to the motor just now turn on while snapping more pictures of the setup and it wasn't unduly loud at the source.

I think the loudness comes from something inherent in the pipes and/or woodwork ... maybe vibration amplification or something like that?

[Stormin Mormon]

I'd suggest to just pull the grey plug.

Second, it looks like it's got a temperature setting (box, upper left) you can adjust a bit colder.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

.

Having never experienced a recirculating heat motor before, why do I need it anyway? I presume it is what gives me the nearly instant hot water in all faucets and shower heads in the house. Anything else?

I wonder aloud if I'd rather have a few minutes of cold water instead of incessant noise from this motor???

But, not knowing anything about the operation, I'm afraid to bypass it or even turn it off until/unless I talk to someone who understands these things.

Particularly, if I were to bypass it, how would I do that most easily for test purposes? If I cut the power to it, for example, would anything burn out elsewhere? Can I just re-pipe around it?

For those of you with these big black motors in your hot-water line near your hot-water heater, are yours as noisy as mine? Is there a quiet variety for example? Or are they all this noisy?

What's the best way to turn it off temporarily to test out whether the bliss of silence is better than a few minutes of cold water in the morning?

[Stormin Mormon]

Oh, forgot. Instead of metal strapped to the wall, maybe you can make rubber mounts of some kind, so the sound isn't carried into the wall.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

.

Having never experienced a recirculating heat motor before, why do I need it anyway? I presume it is what gives me the nearly instant hot water in all faucets and shower heads in the house. Anything else?

I wonder aloud if I'd rather have a few minutes of cold water instead of incessant noise from this motor???

But, not knowing anything about the operation, I'm afraid to bypass it or even turn it off until/unless I talk to someone who understands these things.

Particularly, if I were to bypass it, how would I do that most easily for test purposes? If I cut the power to it, for example, would anything burn out elsewhere? Can I just re-pipe around it?

For those of you with these big black motors in your hot-water line near your hot-water heater, are yours as noisy as mine? Is there a quiet variety for example? Or are they all this noisy?

What's the best way to turn it off temporarily to test out whether the bliss of silence is better than a few minutes of cold water in the morning?

[Stormin Mormon]

Rubber mount of some kind, for sound insullation.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

.

I think the loudness comes from something inherent in the pipes and/or woodwork ... maybe vibration amplification or something like that?

[Martin C.]

Where/how would you suggest I turn it off (to at least test it)?

Here is a picture showing the plumbing:

I don't understand how it works since it appears that the hot-water output at the TOP of the tank (large copper-colored corrugated vertical pipe) isn't even connected to the hot-water recirculation pump!

It appears the output of the water tank at the MIDDLE is what goes to the hot-water recirculation pump; and then the hot water goes from the pump up into the ceiling between floors.

Is this normal?

[Martin C.]

Here is a picture of WHERE the hot water to the pump is coming from:

Notice it's not coming out of the TOP of the hot-water tank; it's coming out of the MIDDLE of the hot-water tank. That seems odd to me.

If I pull the plug on the recirculation pump, will I risk pressure or other damage to the hot water tank? (I don't want an explosion as I've seen the MythBusters blow up a hot-water tank and it shot through the air hundreds of feet!).

[Stormin Mormon]

From what I know of recirculator pumps. They take a bit of hot water out of point A, and pump it into point B. That means there is less delay, for the tenant, who wants to turn on the hot water.

Millions of US homes operate without circulator pumps. Yours can, too. Mine has since 1974 when it was made. Won't cause an explosion.

I hope you realize the Mythbusters people disabled the safety features, and had to really WORK to make the tank blow up.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

.

Here is a picture of WHERE the hot water to the pump is coming from:

Notice it's not coming out of the TOP of the hot-water tank; it's coming out of the MIDDLE of the hot-water tank. That seems odd to me.

If I pull the plug on the recirculation pump, will I risk pressure or other damage to the hot water tank? (I don't want an explosion as I've seen the MythBusters blow up a hot-water tank and it shot through the air hundreds of feet!).

[clare]

Looks like a REAL crappy DIY job. Just shutting it off should not cause any serious issues. Rubber mounting it to a stud, not the drywall between studs, will go a LONG way towards quieting it down. Doesn't look like the wiring is code compiant either.

[clare]

The PROPER way is to pump hot water through a return line to the bottom of the tank (or the cold inlet). It will require an extra line from the farthest tap back to the heater.

[clare]

Just do not dissable the pressure relief - particularly if there is a check valve on the water inlet to the heater.

[Martin C.]

I just realized I have no idea the DIRECTION of flow in those pipes.

Did I draw the direction right in these pictures? Zoomed out:

Close up:

[Martin C.]

If it's as simple as disconnecting the power, and if nothing 'bad' happens when I do so, then that's a simple plan of action.

I'm realizing from this discussion that you're right. It's the 'mounting' that is probably shaking the walls which is probably what's 'amplifying' the noise of the motor hum as it sound's louder in the living quarters above than right in front of it.

Did I draw the direction of current correctly in these pictures?

Where pipes connects to the tank:

How pipes connect to the pump:

[Martin C.]

Do you know what this valve does?

[clare]

You mean the little black doohickey with the pink lable and the little dial? That's not a valve - that's a thermostar.

[Martin C.]

Thanks for everyone's advice.

I think the problems found out were: a) The pump runs more often than needed (i.e., very frequently) b) The pump is badly installed (vibration against wall reverberates)

The holistic operation appears to be:

- Cold water enters water tank 1 where it's heated

- That heated water goes to water tank 2 where it's heated again

- That re-heated water goes to bathrooms where it stagnates over time

- When the stagnant water cools in one of the pipes, a thermostat kicks in

- That thermostat turns on the hot water recirculation pump

- Stagnant water is pumped OUT of the bathrooms by that pump

- That stagnant water goes back into the BOTTOM of water tank 2

- Presumably hot water from water tank 2 then replaces the stagnant water just pumped out of the bathrooms

The simplest noise solutions appear to be: a) Mount the recirculation pump with a rubber fitting of some sort b) Install an electrical timer that only allows operation at set times c) Install an on-demand remote that only allows operation at desired times

The simplest way to temporarily disable operation safely appears to be:

- Just unplug the water recirculation pump

- This will NOT cause any damage to the hot water heater operation

- However, over time, the stagnant water may grow germs

At the moment, I've unplugged the motor (which was the simplest of all remedies) and I've unmounted it from the wall. I will try to think of a method of installation which is quieter - and I will explore hooking up a simple timer so that the operation only really occurs at high-volume shower times.

Thanks for all your help!

[Martin C.]

Thanks for validating the direction of the water. It turned out to be the opposite of what I had originally thought.

To summarize, this shows the direction of water at the ceiling pipes:

That thermoswitch apparently senses temperature of stagnant water in only one set of bathrooms upstairs (not the other).

This shows the direction of water through the pump itself:

Therefore, this must be the flow direction in the pipes: With the result that stagnant water ends up back in the water tank: The whole system can be disabled in a variety of ways as there are at least three water valves and an electrical thermoswitch and 120V power.

At the moment, it's disabled simply by unplugging the 120v power until I figure out how best to mount the pump to the wall shelf with isolation.