painting wood using oil-based paint

It's not clear to me that BM answered the question, it appears they went off on the track of this being new wood and that the OP wants oil stain. We don't even know what question was even put to BM.

She went down the oil path because she thinks she has to use oil because the previous paint was oil based. AFAIK that's not the case. The BM application instructions for their Acrylic Arborcoat solid stain doesn;t have any restriciton on the application instructions about putting over oil based product that was used before. If you can't put it over oil based, I'm sure it would be in the directions.

Reply to
trader_4
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Look, I was not addressing every possible painting project, only hers with the specifics given. She's painting wood siding that has oil based product on it now. What I said is true for what she is doing.

Conveniently forgetting that you posted this: Absolutely not true.

"Primer is required when you want to use Latex over Oil"

She's painting wood siding that has oil based product on it now. Read the instructions for the BM product. IT says nothing about requiring a primer when using it over existing product. If BM had the requirement you claimed exists FOR HER PROJECT, then it's very strange that it's not on the application instructions. Is BM so stupid they can't tell people how to apply their own product correctly?

Reply to
trader_4

Well, I guess they sorta' answered the question within a certain set of boundaries although why one would ever suggest using stain over paint of any variety puzzles me greatly.

In the existing BM product line they can sell in Canada (and, of course, BM isn't going to recommend a non-BM product :) ) it's either an exterior paint or stain of the water-based variety.

_IF_ they'd really addressed the question of what to use over a painted surface, I'd think it wouldn't have include in the answer "if you are painting a wood that has a high tannic acid content" (although I suppose they could still be concerned about bleed-through even yet).

But why limit to stain, leaving out paint entirely???

Probably because the question was inadequately phrased would be the primary guess, but we've not seen the original question, only the response.

Anyway, it's all speculation at best, but imo best option would likely be to use a quality oil-based primer, then exterior latex enamel. If the existing surface is still sound, then with good scrubbing and other surface prep, _probably_ one of the "self-priming" products will be adequate; we repainted the old church building a few years ago and they used the S-W product; it seems to be holding up for the most part...

Reply to
dpb

"dpb" wrote

| Well, I guess they sorta' answered the question within a certain set of | boundaries although why one would ever suggest using stain over paint of | any variety puzzles me greatly. |

Have you used solid stain? If not you may be making a false assumption. It has nothing to do with the normal idea of stain. It just refers to a kind of non-enamel paint that wears away instead of peeling. Solid oil stain became very popular from the 80s until the EPA restrictions, for use on both fresh wood and over old paint. With each paint job, whatever has been scraped won't need to be scraped next time. Eventually it's just all stain, with virtually no scraping required.

Acrylic stains have improved, like acrylic paint. They're *very* adhesive. (A nightmare to clean up a spill after it's had a few seconds to dry.) So they can go over oil paint. There's not much choice, anyway, since there are really no oil paints left for general housepainting. Like the oil-base solid stain, it will wear rather than peeling, so that any scraped paint won't need to be scraped again.

The down side of solid stains is that they have a dull finish and wear away. Our house has asbestos siding. I use solid acrylic stain on that. I use solid oil (Cabot's) stain on the deck and on the decorative fence I built.

Solid oil stain is my preference for siding, but I'm not sure whether I can still get it. One store seems to stock it. Others don't. But that's also confused by BM. BM pays paint stores not to display other products. (Paint stores near me that sell Cabot's have told me they're not allowed to put it on the shelves due to an agreement with BM. I wrote to Cabot's about that, but got no response.) So I'm not clear about exactly what the status is with Cabot's solid oil stains. And I'm unaware of any other company still making solid oil stain.

I think it's a good idea to spot-prime with linseed oil primer, but it's not necessary. The stain soaks in somewhat and sticks well. In fact, the first time I ever used acrylic solid stain was on a fence I built of rough spruce. Very wet. I watered down the stain and just soaked the fence with it. Worked well. :)

| But why limit to stain, leaving out paint entirely??? |

I think it was just their recommendation, though I am surprised they didn't mention paint as an option. Maybe because a fence was involved. As noted elsewhere, solid stain has less manitenance in the long run. The reason for paint would mainly be elegance -- where one wants a smooth gloss finish. But I would avoid paint on something like a fence. It will peel. If I had to paint a fresh wood fence now I'd go with thinned down linseed oil primer followed by acrylic solid stain. Maybe not an ideal solution, but the EPA has left us with few ideal solutions. The technology just hasn't caught up with the restrictions. If I wanted a snazzy gloss finish on a fence I wouldn't know what to use. There are no longer any durable options.

Reply to
Mayayana

What makes you think they did? We don't know what she actually asked and the response says nothing about going over existing anything.

I agree, which is why I said it looks like they didn't address the situation we're being presented with. I'm thinking she sent them something along the lines of that she wants to use oil based stain, so what to do.

Exactly.

Reply to
trader_4

No argument, except that there is no way for anyone to know that you were only addressing her specific situation. As soon as you used the words "No, and" as in "...and you only use primer on bare wood" you have made what appears to be a general statement regarding primer, not a statement specific to her situation. The first part ("No") answered her question; everything after the comma could easily be taken as a general statement as to when primer is used.

If someone who nothing about painting read those words, the only conclusion they could come to is exactly what you said: "and you only use primer on bare wood."

What would you conveniently forget something that is absolutely accurate?

Once again, I'm not talking about her project, I'm talking about the words you used. If you were addressing her specific project, then it should have been worded so as not to appear as a general statement regarding the use of primer.

1) Can I use Oil primer alone? Does that primer has color?

No, unless you have bare wood or areas that have been sanded down to bare wood. Those areas should be primed.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

Are you for real? I made my comment in a reply to Leza's question, my response came right after each question she specifically asked. Anyone can see that I was replying to the question she asked about her specific situation. I clearly was not giving advice to the whole world, in every painting application, which of course can't be done.

I see, so now whenever I answer a question, I have to frame it for all possible readers, with all possible painting products, not answer the one question for the situation stated.

I'm not forgetting what you posted, YOU are. You posted "Primer is required when you want to use latex over oil. That is BS and worse, it's the wrong answer to her question of what she wants to do. If her wood siding is in good shape, has a couple coats of oil based product on it, she can go over it with BM Arborcoat solid stain. BM obviously thinks so, they don't say primer is needed in the application instructions.

I see, you're here posting in a thread about her question and you just made a blanket statement that primer has to be used when going from oil to latex, but it's not directed at her? WTF? Do you think we're all stupid?

If you were addressing her specific project, then it should have

I put my replies right after her specific questions. Any reasonable person can easily see that I was replying to her and not some guy painting a steel boat in Botswana.

I responded to her question and got it right. You want to make the case that I have to address every possible painting situation in my answer. YOU on the other hand, gave her an answer which is wrong for her situation and also wrong for most people who have oil based paint and want to move to latex. Listening to you, she'd be doing 2x the work. Who should she believe? You or BM?

Reply to
trader_4

Not really - If the old oil paint in question has a gloss, then you definitely want to sand & prime it before using latex. If it's flat oil (paint or stain), no need to prime first.

G.

Reply to
Gary

Well then to flat out state "primer is required when you want to use latex over oil" is BS and the wrong answer. And from the description of the actual situation, the question asked, she's painting house siding. You see many cases of house siding being painted in gloss?

Reply to
trader_4

We continue to come at this from 2 completely opposite directions, so let's just move on.

I wish Leza luck with her project and I hope your advice is taken and used to her best advantage.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

"Gary" wrote: | > | > You posted "Primer is | > required when you want to use latex over oil. That is BS... | | Not really - | If the old oil paint in question has a gloss, then you definitely want | to sand & prime it before using latex. If it's flat oil (paint or | stain), no need to prime first. |

I wouldn't prime it. Fortunately, most exterior oil paint will long since have lost its gloss, anyway. Especially on a fence. I just wash it with hot water and TSP. Primer is meant to soak in and provide a base for paint to adhere to. It's not going to stick better than the finish paint. And non-oil, quick-dry primers that don't soak in are even worse, perpetrated by painters who don't want to wait for coats to dry. So oil primer for bare spots and maybe for badly broken up paint that isn't peeling. That would be true with either latex/acrylic or oil. Oil finish paint should not go over bare wood.

Reply to
Mayayana

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