OT. How much does it cost the average American (family) for health care insurance.

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Douglas Johnson wrote:

People try to alter their fingerprints and get plastic surgery to change their looks, usually criminals hiding from the law. Now if you resist questioning or demands for your papers, you are considered a criminal.
TDD
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On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 15:51:41 -0500, Douglas Johnson

Jasmine Fiore was identified by the serial number on her breast implants.
"Fiore's teeth and fingers had been removed before her nude body was stuffed into the suitcase..", and placed in a dumpster.
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Phisherman wrote:

I know someone who sells those inplants - hard work, keeping docs informed about devices, furnishing all the tools and accessories, and occ. taking guff from a doc who wants to do things the wrong way. Of course, if a particular surgeon originated the design of the device, he/she would require less tech. support. My mechanic has a cool parts manual to devine the installation of gizmos. Surgeons can either sit down at the office reading manuals and listening to the rep, or they can be at the ER, putting people back together after they have auto accidents or tipped over the riding mower.
A few years ago, there was a patient killed when part of an xray machine fell on them - I'd be inclined to vote for the pricey screws, just hoping everything hangs together and doesn't kill me by falling or by a radiation leak.
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snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net wrote:

That's the purpose for the extensive testing, life safety.
TDD
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If the hospital was getting paid by everyone that uses it, they would not have to charge those prices. That is what is not clear in any of the reform issues I've seen so far. It can possibly work if administered properly.
Hypothetical case: My insurance premium is $700 a month. I go to the hospital and I'm charged $5000 for a procedure and stay, all covered by insurance. No out of pocket cost to me.
Joe Lazyinski goes to the hospital for the same procedure. No insurance, the hospital writes off his tab and takes some of the money I paid to keep afloat.
Now the government steps in and gives "free" care to everyone. My insurance (optional) drops to $350 a month, but I pay an extra $100 in taxes to cover everyone else for "free". I have a net savings
I go in for the same hypothetical procedure, but the bill is only $2500 because that is all they need. Joe Lazyinski goes in and has his procedure and B. Obama sends a check for $2500 to the hospital.
Hospital gets the same total $$$, but from two sources. Everyone wins.
What scares me is that I'm still going to pay the high premium and even higher taxes and healthcare is still crappy for the masses.
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They may charge those prices but they seldom get them, even for self-pay. It is an inflated price because they know that the insurance companies will knock it down by so much. IIRC MCare also uses list prices somewhere in their cogitating on what they will pay the hospitals. But MCare is not negotiated, it is take it or leave it.

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Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The difference is, of course, that the entire Lazyinski clan and everybody they ever knew is in for the same procedure. You are number 8,233 on the waiting list.
Come back a year from next Tuesday.
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wrote:

You *really* think it's free, that it doesn't cost anything at all? The doctors and nurses work gratis? The equipment and supplies and facilities appear by magic?
Think about it.
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Doug Miller wrote:

I can tell you've never heard of transubstantiation, miracles, or even the rose that appears on Edgar Allan Poe's grave each year on the anniversary of his death.
I recall a cartoon of a mechanic holding a part from the doctor's BMW and explaining: "There are many things we just do not know about the carburetor."
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Well Alberta is a Province that is rich with oil and gas revenues. That is why they have no health care surcharges nor sales tax.
In Ontario, it is a different story. In addition to part of our Federal and Provincial Income Taxes covering health care, every employer has to pay a head tax, sometimes called a payroll tax to cover health care plus every wage earner has to pay a surcharge on their Provinical income tax to the amount of about $550.00 per year. The only people who get free health care are the unemployed, retired, welfare cases and ill people who do not earn any wages. Doing it this way evens the cost over everyone. This is only for basic health and hospital care. Drugs, dental and other costs are paid by suplimental insurance or out of our pockets.
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They also tend to pay the lowest per capita for health outlay of all of the prov.

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Yes that is much as it in this part of Canada. And we are not pretending everything is perfect or without any problems. But when I go for any medical procedure the person I get the same priority as the person next to me. Witness those investigations into imperfect laboratory cancer detecetion work. And the firing of a coroner in one province!
Had agreed with my doc to have (The long form, 12 hour fasting one) follow up blood test within a month or six weeks. So last Friday I decided to go have samples taken. My family GP will have the results (electronically) probably tomorrow, Tuesday. So have just made appointment to see her to review results and a swelling problem with my right foot, this coming Thursday. If it was more urgent I would go a hospital ER. Where waiting times can be long!
There are and will be no charges; except the cost of my gasoline to drive to blood collection; I choose the hospital where parking is easy, the staff are pleasant and waiting times are short. Bernice the regular receptionist was on vacation!
It's all paid for through taxes. Canada is one of many (westernized anyway) countries that have government funded, THAT DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN GOVERNMENT 'RUN', health care schemes that cover 'most' if not all of their population.
With successful European, Scandinavian and other successful national health care systems operating for the last 50 years etc. it seems amazing that USA citizens are not 'agitating' FOR universal health care.
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With successful European, Scandinavian and other successful national health care systems operating for the last 50 years etc. it seems amazing that USA citizens are not 'agitating' FOR universal health care.
***********************************************************
Some are, most are not. At least the ones with influence.
From a humanitarian standpoint, I'd like to see everyone get good care when needed. From a personal standpoint, I have excellent coverage at minimal cost to me. So it is difficult to get the tens of thousands like me that have good care to want to change. What we need is some good information.
First is cost. You state your care is paid for by taxes. By covering everyone that has nothing right now, there will be some savings as the local hospital is charging me more to cover the ones that will not pay. What are the differences? Until I can see number, I'm not willing to pay a lot of additional taxes.
Lastly, who is covered? I'm willing to pay a little more to assist those in need, the low income family or those that cannot work due to physical or mental problems. I'm not willing to pay to cover some lazy ass that is not contributing to the system.
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wrote in message

I really likes this "video":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jng4TnKqy6A

I do think that basic health insurance should be like basic fire protection. More insurance should be available at reasonable cost. If you never paid insurance for a procedure or disease until you needed that protection, the cost should be higher to you than if you had paid the insurance from the start.
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Best regards
Han
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"Ed Pawlowski" wrote

This is the crux Ed. We arent getting good information and partly it's because they are still formulating the plan.
My main dislike is we won't get to vote on it as a populace. I think this time, that really *should* happen. I also have a funny feeling this is the one time many of us *would* vote in a higher tax to pay for something, if it were explained.

Other countries with this can range from tax rates like ours (but they do not have the other extras we do have, far too numerous to mention) to 60% in taxes (often with the main difference between them and us being a smaller military and somewhat more reliance on 'international assistance' for expensive things like being able to tell if a tsumani is about to whack you in the ass).
I am not aware of any other country with 'free health care' who plans to also provide it to illegal aliens who pay no taxes.

Grin, illegal aliens for one. I personally have 'issues' with that. I have no issue with a person who moves here on a green card (or gets one later) and files for citizenship. My own grandparents on one side came over in 1915 (legally) and I've worked with many wonderful Americans who's citizenship papers are barely dry. They benefit us and pay taxes just like you and I do and have the same right as I do to all we have to offer.
Be prepared. Most folks outside the USA, think of illegal aliens by their own numbers and they may have a few. Like, 1,000 or so (Canada runs much higher). Most of theirs in the advanced countries of Europe etc, arent in the same class as they were allowed in under a quota and in the USA, we call them refugees and accord them that name. (Lexography of American vs British english pertains).
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But they still want our support. I want some facts.

Agree
Think of the children.
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"Ed Pawlowski" wrote

Me too.

Same synch there.

I actually can deal with that. Kids, ok with me. What I don't want is a flood of illegal aliens treking here just before the bambino comes out, for free care then going back home to Mom 'wherever outside the USA that is'. Meantime, a USA citizen who really needed ultrasound (used for more than checking fetal health BTW), was unable to get it because the services were flooded and got the 'please call back later, all appointments are taken'.
I'm probably not explaining it well, but my gut feeling is if we do this, we start first with just citizens, with something for *children* who arent yet but may be one day.
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Tony Hwang wrote:

If it works for you, keep doing it.
In the United States, we don't want to die early from heart failure or cancer and we don't want to wait eleven months for an abortion.
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USA gubmint won't pay for an abortion at any time, 11 months or sooner.
Meanwhile, I know quire a few people in Canada, and none of them consider it advantageous in terms of healthcare, even for heart disease or cancer, to move south of their border. I even heard them telling me so.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
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Yea it's pretty easy to cut defense spending to the point you Canucks can only put 3 navy ships to sea and the military is so small it is irrelevant for your socialists programs when you live next to the police station (US of A) and rely TOTALLY on it for protection...Pathatic if you ask me....What was the last major medical breakthrough in a socialist healthcare country , besides the abortion pill ??? How many in the USA ??? Like the military you rely on US to do it for you..then copy the procedure , pills ect. and ration it out...Like the Pig Flue , it will be the USA that beats it... Not Cuba or Canada..... Nuff said...
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