OT. How much does it cost the average American (family) for health care insurance.

[benick]

Workers Comp. would be FINE if they would eliminate the fraud and fake lawsuites...Strange how many that get kicked off welfare due to time limits , marriage , kids over 18 , ect. end up on Workers Comp then SSI Disability..It is a scam run right out in the open here in the Liberal State of Maine.....The Republicans TRIED to ammend the healthcare bill with Tort Reform....The Dems wouldn't allow it...We will STILL have the ambulance chasers like John Edwards running around and suing for fake injuries....You mean "bureaucrats" like the ones who CAN'T even run the Cash for Clunkers Program or any other Government Program for that matter...See the SS adm. or the VA...God help us....

[benick]

Theyt may "have" 33 ships BUT they could only afford to put 3 ships to sea to help NATO with the piracy of Somilia.... If a cure can be found for the Pig Flue it will originate in the USA not Cuba or Canada.I should have been clearer for you Canadiens....How much has Defense Spending been cut to pay for your Socialized rationed medical care ?? By 2/3? IIRC....

[norminn]

Because in the US we are fatter and sicker younger.

That's ridiculous. 56% in UK? Where did you get that number?

[BobR]

How great for you but don't be so ignorant as to believe that someone is not paying for it somewhere.

[Tony Hwang]

Hmmm, Defend from what? Aliens? Canada does not have many enemies like U.S. Can you travel all over the world proudly showing stars and stripes on you? I CAN and do with my maple leaf all the time. We're welcome every where. Your defense dollar is all gobbled up by private military industrial complex like Black water making a few crooks mega rich in the name of your country. Eisenhower warned about it when he was leaving White House and it became a reality since the days when Cheney was SOD. Got whole lot worse with Dubya in White House. I feel sorry for an American like you. Know the truth.

[TD]

"benick" wrote in news:jPWdncrbN_eBEQXXnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

Canada has helped us out before. You don't need to bash them.

[Marina]

"William Munny" wrote in news:h79dgv$c7u$ [e-mail]:

OMG, that is a lot to pay. A friend is self-employed. She joined the Chamber of Commerce to get a group rate. I'm her only employee, and I pay all of my own ins., but at least I can get the group rate, too.

[h]

$0. Can't afford insurance (self-employed) and I only go to the doctor if red stuff is spilling out. In the past 10 years I've spent $2,300 on medical and dental combined (I get my teeth cleaned twice a year). I'm in my late

50s and my "medical" expenses consist of a good diet and a $10/month gym membership which I use at least 27 days a month. Oh, and I didn't have children, so I'm not subject to most of the "female" issues which plague other women my age.

[h]

And then they will get a gigantic bill which THEY WILL HAVE TO PAY, at least if they own anything. I've already decided that if anything even remotely serious happens to me I will just die, since I can't afford to pay. What's the point? Save myself so I can be homeless after they take my house? No thanks.

[The Daring Dufas]

Like psychotic grandchildren?

TDD

[Don Klipstein]

They put 9% of their ships out to Somalia while having a navy of reasonable size for their population. Who else put 9% of their navy across an ocean to Somalia?

Canada's "Royal Canadian Navy" was fairly decent for a country of Canada's population in 2008 (33 ships) and they sent 9% of them to Somalia, which is not a major war theatre. Did any country with more than

33 naval warships send more than 9% of theirs to Somalia? If so, then who?

And I still see healthcare being more rationed in USA than in Canada - a minority of Americans can afford "all they can eat" in terms of healthcare, while millions of Americans choose to not get health insurance because choosing health insurance would certainly bankrupt them, while those with a choice include those yet to get not-so-certainly inflicted by a "pre-existing condition".

- Don Klipstein ( [e-mail])

[Doug Miller]

You *really* think it's free, that it doesn't cost anything at all? The doctors and nurses work gratis? The equipment and supplies and facilities appear by magic?

Think about it.

[dpb]

And why shouldn't one pay for services rendered????

That's when ones' personal responsibility is _supposed_ to kick in...

The problem is and one of the prime reasons it is _SO_ expensive is that a very high fraction of those folks who use emergency room facilities injudiciously don't pay so the expenses have to be reimbursed from those who can/do pay for not only their care but for a significant number of others who didn't...

[dpb]

Don Klipstein wrote: ...

That's gross over-exaggeration--mostly in those who simply choose not to are the young and healthy that simply choose to spend on other self-indulgences rather than something as mundane as health insurance...TheDoofus ex-SIL as the cardinal exhibit that dropped (despite court order) coverage for his kids to buy a racing bike instead leaving DIL w/ hospital bill for young g-daughter... :(

A major problem in the US is the rise of the entitlement mentality and concomitant lack of personal responsibility for actions (and subsequent expectation of somebody else picking up for consequences of lack of same).

There are issues to be addressed/resolved certainly, but surely nothing proposed so far is going to be very successful and is certainly going to drive expenditures thru the roof (which have already gotten a running start on w/o even adding health care program increases). The fundamental problem is there simply aren't enough printing presses in existence to manufacture the kind of money they're talking...

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[dpb]

But, the point is that truly large expenditures are covered in significant fraction -- that's where one needs insurance; w/ a decent-paying job and some self-discipline there's no reason not to have the "slush-fund" to handle routine medical costs. Essentially, as noted elsewhere in the subthread, self-insure to a point and underwrite above that.

IMO that switch to the mentality of insurance covering all the minor dings and nicks of ordinary care that has had a major influence in driving up demand/costs since it developed the mindset that "it's paid for, why not?" for every little sniffle or hangnail.

If, otoh, one knows one is responsible up to a reasonable deductible then one will tend to be more judicious in deciding whether it's really necessary to take Johnny/Sally/self every other day.

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[Ed Pawlowski]

Yeah, but people with insurance get it for free. If they get it free, everyone should get it free.

[dpb]

Mine is $850 w/o kids but age 64/62. Probably lower cost is somewhat related also to location...

Additional thought along lines alluded to in other response--ime, when former employer (also self-insured) looked at changing the administrators/plans in local area, the PPO's that presented all were focussed almost entirely on the individual doctor's office visit for essentially well care. The ability of their plans to deal w/ real illness was abysmal at best--they essentially didn't seem to recognize the problem it appeared in their model.

This was some time ago when they were springing up like mushrooms all over w/ the same false premise we're hearing now that "preventive" medicine will reduce costs significantly. I don't believe there's a single one of those that survived. (BTW, I never personally elected to change own coverage from the base "traditional" insurance provider to a PPO for the above reasons even though premiums were generally higher).

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[Kurt Ullman]

Yepper. We essentially have gotten away from health insurance (with insurance defined as taking a large but rare risk and spreading over a number of people) when we got away from the old Major Medical and got into paying for Dr. visits and first dollar RX.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Are you part of a group? If so, the age of the group affects the cost too. The more younger people, the lower the overall rates.

[HeyBub]

I usually just make up the numbers based on my experience. Turns out I was being overly generous for both. Here are the actual statistics:

5-year survival rate for prostate cancer US - 92% UK - 51% Survival rates, male, all cancers. US - 66% UK - (Wales 48%, England 45%, Scotland 40%) This first article also states: "...some of the differences could be attributed to variations in 'access to diagnostic and treatment services. This, of course, is associated with the amount of investment in technology such as CT scanners.' "

The UK has about 9 CT scanners per million people, the US has about 33

(Australia has even more than the U.S. I think it's because of the kangaroos.)