Stormin Mormon wrote in news:r3vTt.194002 $ snipped-for-privacy@fx08.iad:
Hey, the yapping has stopped! And the kids aren't screaming anymore!
Uh oh, the doorbell is ringing. I may need to make haste for the next county...
Oh, man. My spoof is active again. He's funnier than I. I hope no one takes him seriously.
For the next several weeks, every time I see a cop car, it's coming to take me for the death of a couple kids died of antifreeze.
. Christ>>>
Antifreeze should always be mixed 50-50. You really should flush out all the old stuff anyway. Flush to 100% water and then add 50% antifreeze. Done.
Wrong. There is no reason to remove them. Bad idea!
Nonsense. Try reading if you can't think. There is no reason to even pull the lower hose. If you do, you'd better replace it.
If you don't *measure* the specific gravity, you're just guessing. It's not like it difficult. There is no need to drain the system, at all. Sheesh!
Then measure the specific gravity, just as a check.
It's no joking matter if you have seen an animal suffer from glycol poisoning. It is not a fast or easy death - and criminal charges are no joke either if you get caught.
Here's good info - easy to see.
Doesn't matter anyway. It's asking for trouble. Leave it sealed up, and pull the lower rad hose. You should inspect those hoses anyway, and replace them if there's any doubt about their condition. Same with a rad petcock. Don't even touch it. Most now are cheap plastic and it's a good chance you'll need a new one as soon as you open it. And for what, a tiny dribble of water if you're lucky? Takes all day. Always flush with clean water. I don't use hose connectors. Just drain it by pulling the lower hose, and refill with water. Run it for a few minutes after the thermostat opens up. Wait half an hour for cool down, then repeat the process. After emptying it the second time, you'll see it's clean water coming out. No worry about even a gallon left in the block. Close it up and pour in half the system capacity with 100% anti-freeze. Top off with water. Done.
snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
Do not run the engine when flushing. All engines should be flushed when the block and rad are cool to the touch.
Actually, it's not. Not in the way that automotive engines need it to be.
Go read Ray Bohacz's article. The article is in Hemming's Classic Car from the last couple of months. You won't do this, of course.
Go read Ray Bohacz's article before you accuse me of subscribing to a "myth". The article is in Hemming's Classic Car from the last couple of months. You won't do this, of course.
You appear to be thinking that I said that all engines have block drains. I did not.
Read my post above: I said all blocks COULD BE DRAINED. The method of drain is up to the manufacturer.
EVERY vehicle on your list has a way to drain the block (even if inconvenient). EVERY vehicle on your list has a coolant change interval. As I asserted all along.
And if you are flushing the motor and running it at the same time it will never GET any more than barely warm to the touch.
I didn't say it was a better coolant all-round - just better at removing heat. Learn to READ. I have been a mechanic since the sixties, and have taught both high school and trade level auto mechanics - I DO know what I'm talking about.
I didn't say there was not a specified change interval and you DID say all engines have block drains - and the only way tototally drain SOME of the engines I listed is to remove the engine os stand the vehicle on end. - or remove the engine mounts, or other similar very unlikely methods.
snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:
Actually, it's not. Not in the way that automotive engines need it to be. Go read Ray Bohacz's article.
I'll partially summarize what I remember from Bohacz's article: Plain water has too much surface tension. High surface tension means that the boundary layer is too tenacious, and tends to change phase (boil) before it can be stripped away to be replaced by cooler water. Once the water changes phase, heat transfer essentially stops, and localized overheating begins.
Go read Ray Bohacz's article.
If you're truly the teacher that you claim to have been, then you will be intrigued that there might be information out there that you may not know.
I did not say that. On Wednesday the 28th I said that if the engine did not have a block drain that it was meant to drain through the rad. Which was incorrect, of course: some engines require that you pull the lower rad hose for a block drain.
Or just pull the lower rad hose, which is what I discovered when I looked up all the engines you mentioned.
Tegger should take that up with Prestone. They make a radiator flushing product, been selling it for decades. Here are the instructions:
1.With engine off and cool, remove radiator cap.* Drain radiator then clos e draincock. 2.Pour entire contents of Prestone® Super Radiator Flush into radiator an d fill with water. For systems larger that 12 quarts, use two bottles. 3.Run engine with heater on highest temperature setting for 10 minutes afte r reaching normal operating temperature. 4.With engine off and cool, remove radiator cap, drain radiator, and close draincock. Refill with water and replace radiator cap to fully closed posi tion. Repeat step #3. 5.Stop engine and allow to cool. Remove radiator cap, drain system and clo se draincock. Add enough recommended coolant to achieve a 50-70% concentra tion. Top off radiator with water. Replace radiator cap to fully closed p osition. Run engine for 20 minutes to mix coolant/water. 6.If equipped with a non-pressurized coolant reservoir, rinse, drain, and r efill with a 50-70% solution of the coolant and water.They run the car for 10 mins first with water and the flushing product, then again in step 4 for 10 mins with just water.
I agree with you. You don't want to run on pure water for an extended period of time because antifreeze provides corrosion inhibitors and lubrication for the water pump. But running it on water for a few minutes at idle while flushing it out is done all the time with no ill effects. It it's good enough for Prestone, it's good enough for me.
Also, I'd rather do a couple of flushs and refills instead of trying to get all the mixture out by opening block drains, etc. Who wants to screw around with a block drain, especially an older one, that could snap off, leak later, etc? The only downside to the multi flush approach is that you do wind up with more liquid that has to be properly disposed of.
You are correct there too. It's my understanding that in race cars for example, they use the min amount of antifreeze for the application because the more water, the better it is at absorbing heat.
Learn to READ. I have been a mechanic since the
Well, he did say that some methods that you would have to do might be inconvenient. I wonder what he thinks happens when you take one of those cars in to a service shop? I can see it now, customer gets a $1500 bill because they pulled the engine to turn it upside down and drain it...... I'm sure that goes on all the time.....
So you add a surfactant/ wetting agent like water - wetter (redline) or equivalent to the water.
And how do you drain a reverse flow lt1 or l99??? Both rad hoses enter the top of the engine.
" snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:
If your engine is so far gone that you need to employ a chemical flush, then the possible slight damage caused by running pure water for 10 minutes is the least of your worries.
Yup, and so do the oldies.
I'd go so far as to say that every automotive fluid has a replacement interval, but sometimes the manufacturer's idea of what the lifetime of the vehicle is is shorter than you plan on keeping it. (think about that for a second, it actually makes sense.)
Some of us have cars built before then :)
Don't doubt that... I remember reading his columns in the sister mag, forget what it was called, Muscle Machines maybe? Had a subscription for a while but let it lapse, not for any good reason, just didn't have time to keep up with the scene anymore. He seemed like he had a pretty good handle on things.
My only point was, today we're accustomed to multi-year coolant replacement intervals. The old 50's and 60's stuff was designed to have the coolant replaced every year; if you don't want to do that, I would retrofit a 2-way rad cap and a bottle.
nate
Non response noted. I gave you Prestone, which has 50+ years of experience with auto cooling systems. They clearly say you can run an auto on water for 10 mins at idle when flushing. If that advice was wrong, you'd think they would have been sued out of business. Their coolant flush product is in every auto parts store in the country, Walmart, everywhere. We'd all like to see your reference that says using water for 10 mins to flush an engine is going to damage it. Like CL, I've done it on cars and had zero problems. engine.
" snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:
Note my actual wording above: "possible slight damage".
Running pure water DOES cause damage. But that damage is cumulative. Ten minutes is nothing; two years would be substantial. My reference is the Ray Bohacz article that nobody wants to bother reading.
Tegger doesn't know anything he can't read in a book, or in the "coles notes" version of the book on the internet.
Chemical flushes are the only way to get rid of even moderately severe scale and rust buildup in a cast iron block - and getting rid of the scale and rust buildup is the only way to reduce or eliminate the,zone boiling he was ranting about a few messages back.
As I said before, obviously not a mechanic.
I believe we were talking about changing antifreeze and flushing a cooling system. That process should be 10 mins, not 2 years. I think everyone has acknowledged that running water for any extended period, ie normal operation is a bad idea.
My reference is the Ray
If you provide a link, I'll take a look.
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