I'm moving an oven to a different wall in my kitchen, so I need to
extend the wiring to the new location. Currently, the oven is hard
wired to a 3 wire service (40 amp breaker) located in a junction box
that is in turn connected to the service panel. My question is, is it
ok to splice the new wire onto the existing wire, located in the
junction box, instead of running all new wire directly to the service
panel? Is this A: really stupid, or B: Not too bright but it won't
kill you, or C: Perfectly fine if the splice is done correctly.
Disclaimer: As long as you know what you are doing *and* you
do your "splice" inside of a junction box that is up to code
per location, not having too many conductors in it, having a
cover on it, etc *and* did I mention "you know what you're
doing"??? then the answer is "C".
Baisez-les s'ils ne peuvent pas prendre une plaisanterie
I don't think the NEC prohibits this, however, new range outlets need to be of
the 4-wire variety. Moving an outlet from one side of the kitchen to the other
might be a violation in the eyes of an inspector only because he'd be extending
an older variety circuit which is no longer legal.
I think you may be right, but just phrasing is poorly.
The old circuit is still legal, but if you you change it, it must then
comply with current code; which requires a separate neutral and ground.
Ya know, that is an interesting idea. My A/C, range, oven and dryer are all
have shared neutral/ground. I am not concerned about the first three, but
putting wet things into a potentially hot dryer is a bit spooky. (I haven't
told my wife about it, don't want to make her uncomfortable... I never
thought about adding a ground.
Running a new ground back to the panel would be a chore, but I wonder if
simply running a wire from the dryer frame to a cold water pipe would do the
Do not use a cold water pipe as a ground UNLESS you've tested it and
confirmed that it actually is a _good_ ground. Voltmeter resistance
testing and visual inspection is NOT good enough.
And if you do do it, you need to disconnect the ground/neutral interconnect
in the dryer.
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
A *better* test would be if you could light a 300W bulb using the water
pipe for a return path. But what happens if there's a leak to ground in
the dryer, and it's not enough to blow a fuse (breaker, whatever.)
That's a good way to electrocute a plumber someday who disconnects the
pipe somewhere in the middle.
You are safer using the dryer equipment ground as a neutral because it's
a big wire and the unbalanced load for a dryer is very small.
In other words leave it alone, or run a real ground wire back to the
panel (or the grounding electrode conductor, or the electric meter
enclosure, or the copper pipe on street side of the water meter, or a
ground clamp on the metal service raceway.) The ground wire is supposed
to be run with circuit conductors, but doesn't have to be for old work
if doing so is totally impractical.
If your moving the range and not replacing it. I doubt that you will need to
upgrade to a 4 wire plug.
However if in the future you replace the oven then your facing some ugly
Everything was 3 wire years ago, now because of stupid people everywhere,
the NEC and the NFPA have decided that the rules must be stronger. ( no
offence to you or any specific person intended )
If replacing the circuit is not a big deal then do it. You can always say
when you sell the home " upgraded wiring"
There was a fireman here in AZ that ran an extension cord across his
daughters bed for a space heater. It caught fire. He was touted as a hero
because he had installed smoke alarms. I have friends in that fire
department and made some calls. He had over 80 hours of electrical training
and had violated every rule taught to the fire department. He was
disciplined, internally for getting on TV. Now we have arc fault breakers.
Just an example of "they" are everywhere. The code is set as a minimum
standard of safety.
Have fun with your remodel and I hope everything goes well. They can be
If this is a signifigant renovation then the new outlet location is indeed new
and needs to conform to current codes.
Also- you will always be able to connect new "4-wire" ranges to old "3-wire"
outlets - forever. The old outlets are like all existing standards,
As anyone who ever bought a new appliance like a range or dryer knows, the
plug/cord is NEVER included - you must purchase that seperately depending on
which variety your EXISTING outlet is.
I just helped a friend wire a home and 6/3 wg. was 1.10 a foot at the big
Orange Box. Didn't price 8/3 as the range was 65' from the panel and on the off
chance the new range is the super-deluxe model I felt it best to install the
It was a lot less bulky than I remember from years past - made like they now
make 12/3 with no "stiffners" cording or filler in the sheath.
I doubt 8/3 wg. was signifigantly less $.
Yes it's an American thing.
In many homes, the range or dryer is hard-wired directly to the NM cable which
was a long accepted practice.
And a range could have a 40 or 50a outlet, of the 3 or 4 wire variety.
Electric dryers are always 30a, but may be of the 3 or 4 wire variety.
In Europe I believe all plug/socket combinations are the same whether it's a 20
amp 220v cooker or a .001 amp nightlight.
As a Brit living in the US, I have to say, "Yes, many higher-current
appliances here do not come with the cord and plug because the standards
change from time to time." IIRC, our electric clothes dryer did not come
with a cord and plug. The old one was hard-wired, so I bought a 4-pin
outlet and cord/plug to connect the new one according to current code.
Then we moved and found that our new home has an older-style 3-pin
outlet, so I had to buy a 3-pin cord/plug to suit.
MB (who misses ring mains, separate circuits for lights and outlets, and
plugs with fuses in them and earth pins that look good for 100A)
On 02/06/04 08:45 am Mike Lewis put fingers to keyboard and launched the
following message into cyberspace:
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