Ok to splice oven wiring?

[Scott]

I'm moving an oven to a different wall in my kitchen, so I need to extend the wiring to the new location. Currently, the oven is hard wired to a 3 wire service (40 amp breaker) located in a junction box that is in turn connected to the service panel. My question is, is it ok to splice the new wire onto the existing wire, located in the junction box, instead of running all new wire directly to the service panel? Is this A: really stupid, or B: Not too bright but it won't kill you, or C: Perfectly fine if the splice is done correctly.

[I-zheet M'drurz]

Disclaimer: As long as you know what you are doing *and* you do your "splice" inside of a junction box that is up to code per location, not having too many conductors in it, having a cover on it, etc *and* did I mention "you know what you're doing"??? then the answer is "C".

[DanG]

B. Not to bright.

It violates NEC.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Keep the whole world singing. . . . DanG

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[HA HA Budys Here]

Normally, it wouldn't violate NEC, however if it's an older 3-wire circuit you now must install a 4-wire circuit at all "new" range outlet locations.

[Zaf]

Care to site where the NEC prohibits this?

[HA HA Budys Here]

I don't think the NEC prohibits this, however, new range outlets need to be of the 4-wire variety. Moving an outlet from one side of the kitchen to the other might be a violation in the eyes of an inspector only because he'd be extending an older variety circuit which is no longer legal.

[Toller]

I think you may be right, but just phrasing is poorly. The old circuit is still legal, but if you you change it, it must then comply with current code; which requires a separate neutral and ground.

[zxcvbob]

If it's a very long run, it might be worthwhile to run a separate ground wire with the old wires -- just tape it to the existing cable ever-so-often. (I haven't priced 8/4 or 8/3wg cable lately.)

Bob

[SQLit]

If your moving the range and not replacing it. I doubt that you will need to upgrade to a 4 wire plug. However if in the future you replace the oven then your facing some ugly choices. Everything was 3 wire years ago, now because of stupid people everywhere, the NEC and the NFPA have decided that the rules must be stronger. ( no offence to you or any specific person intended ) If replacing the circuit is not a big deal then do it. You can always say when you sell the home " upgraded wiring"

There was a fireman here in AZ that ran an extension cord across his daughters bed for a space heater. It caught fire. He was touted as a hero because he had installed smoke alarms. I have friends in that fire department and made some calls. He had over 80 hours of electrical training and had violated every rule taught to the fire department. He was disciplined, internally for getting on TV. Now we have arc fault breakers. Just an example of "they" are everywhere. The code is set as a minimum standard of safety. Have fun with your remodel and I hope everything goes well. They can be challenging

[HA HA Budys Here]

If this is a signifigant renovation then the new outlet location is indeed new and needs to conform to current codes.

Also- you will always be able to connect new "4-wire" ranges to old "3-wire" outlets - forever. The old outlets are like all existing standards, "grandfathered."

As anyone who ever bought a new appliance like a range or dryer knows, the plug/cord is NEVER included - you must purchase that seperately depending on which variety your EXISTING outlet is.

I just helped a friend wire a home and 6/3 wg. was 1.10 a foot at the big Orange Box. Didn't price 8/3 as the range was 65' from the panel and on the off chance the new range is the super-deluxe model I felt it best to install the larger cable.

It was a lot less bulky than I remember from years past - made like they now make 12/3 with no "stiffners" cording or filler in the sheath.

I doubt 8/3 wg. was signifigantly less $.

[Zaf]

Ahh yes, Arc fault breakers. The NEC does improve safety, but in many ways it is just another example of special interests gone amuck. How about outlawing

[HA HA Budys Here]

[Mike Lewis]

Is this an American thing .. I've bought several dryers and ranges ... the cord always comes with them. I've never been asked "What style of cord would you like?"

Mike

[Toller]

Ya know, that is an interesting idea. My A/C, range, oven and dryer are all have shared neutral/ground. I am not concerned about the first three, but putting wet things into a potentially hot dryer is a bit spooky. (I haven't told my wife about it, don't want to make her uncomfortable... I never thought about adding a ground.

Running a new ground back to the panel would be a chore, but I wonder if simply running a wire from the dryer frame to a cold water pipe would do the trick?

[HA HA Budys Here]

Do NOT do this.

[HA HA Budys Here]

Yes it's an American thing.

In many homes, the range or dryer is hard-wired directly to the NM cable which was a long accepted practice.

And a range could have a 40 or 50a outlet, of the 3 or 4 wire variety.

Electric dryers are always 30a, but may be of the 3 or 4 wire variety.

In Europe I believe all plug/socket combinations are the same whether it's a 20 amp 220v cooker or a .001 amp nightlight.

[Minnie Bannister]

As a Brit living in the US, I have to say, "Yes, many higher-current appliances here do not come with the cord and plug because the standards change from time to time." IIRC, our electric clothes dryer did not come with a cord and plug. The old one was hard-wired, so I bought a 4-pin outlet and cord/plug to connect the new one according to current code. Then we moved and found that our new home has an older-style 3-pin outlet, so I had to buy a 3-pin cord/plug to suit.

MB (who misses ring mains, separate circuits for lights and outlets, and plugs with fuses in them and earth pins that look good for 100A)

On 02/06/04 08:45 am Mike Lewis put fingers to keyboard and launched the following message into cyberspace:

[Toller]

Do not do what; run a separate ground, or ground the frame to a water pipe? Why? I understand the evils of ground loops, but as long as the neutral is a better path back it should not be an issue.

[Chris Lewis]

According to Toller :

Do not use a cold water pipe as a ground UNLESS you've tested it and confirmed that it actually is a _good_ ground. Voltmeter resistance testing and visual inspection is NOT good enough.

And if you do do it, you need to disconnect the ground/neutral interconnect in the dryer.

[Mike Lewis]

Actually I'm Canadian ... I'm surprised that this is different in the US when compared to Canada.

Mike