Nutty California judge awards 1.6M over 2x4s not being 2" by 4"

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On 09/16/2014 9:53 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Excepting they're spec'ed minus-32nds...
<http://www.carbideprocessors.com/3-pc-router-bit-set-for-undersize-plywood-1-2-shank-whiteside-470/ Same available from Amana, Freud, CMT and sizable number of the inexpensives as well...
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You get what you are willing to pay for and 99.99% of Lowes customers are perfectly happy with what they are getting. When you are paying $2.94 for a 2x4 8 you can't expect it to be the same as a $5 2x4.
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On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 19:27:33 -0400, "Don Phillipson"

Oh, crap! You mean it's not??
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Not surprising.
Unfortunately, when I ask my news reader to show me the previous post in a thread, it ignores my kf. First thing I see is some idiot getting all worked up and going off in to fantasy land.
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Dan Espen

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On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 19:39:01 -0700, "Pico Rico"

Google is the 21st century answer to Eternal September.
http://cdnassets.hw.net/8f/fa/17292adc448980b6eab02fa96fcb/lowes-2x4-final-judgement.pdf
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On Tue, 16 Sep 2014 19:39:01 -0700, "Pico Rico"

BTW I am still trying to find the original complaint and what size the offending 2x4 actually was. The judgement doesn't even mention 2x4s. Was this really about synthetic deck boards? (what is referenced)
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wrote:

The only time I have seen that at the big box is when you buy furring strips. If you actually buy the dimensional lumber it seems to be right.
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On Tuesday, September 16, 2014 11:07:49 PM UTC-7, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I got the 1x4s from a lumberyard though. I wonder if they weren't something other than the 1x4 common I asked for.
Harry K
Harry K
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writes:

But PR, it's just too, too HARD to do my own fact checking, whine, whine. Now that I can just cut and paste "the origin of "EterMal September"" and have Google correct the spelling too (what a lazy world we live in!) I find:
==================================================Eternal September From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Long September) Jump to: navigation, search Eternal September (also September that never ended)[1] is the period beginning September 1993,[2] a date from which it is believed by some that an endless influx of new users (newbies) has degraded standards of discourse and behavior on Usenet and the wider Internet.
The term eternal September is a Usenet slang expression, and was coined by Dave Fischer. The term is so well entrenched that one news server calls itself Eternal September, and gives the date as a running tally of days since September of 1993 (e.g., Sep. 03, 2012 is "September 6943, 1993, the September that never ends.").[3] This server was formerly named Motzarella.org.[4]
================================================================ Ooh, so relevant!

Thanks.

What I MEANT to say was something along the lines of "its all the usual suspects that chimed in without wondering how a $1.6M settlement could be reached if the facts were as some asserted - that the legal system didn't even know that 2 by 4's have been neither 2" or 4" for quite some time."
You would think by that time SOMEONE would have told the judge or prosecutor about standard industry practices. And they did. But then YOU had to rain on MY parade by attempting to post a link to the actual case file, you DEMON!!!!! <g> (just doing my share to "degrade the standards of discourse!")
What's more interesting is the realignment of previous positions that's occuring now that the truth is known and the myth debunked.
SH
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On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:38:42 AM UTC-4, Sherlock.Homes wrote:

What exactly are you crowing and bitching about? So far, as gfre said, we don't know what the specifics of the original claim by the govt was, ie how far out of spec those 2 x 4's were. If some percentage are 1/16 under and some are 1/16 over, does that justify what was done? All I've seen that's specific so far is the settlement that gfre posted. It says *nothing* about the validity of the original charges.
And regardless, the ones ultimately paying this $1.7 mil will be consumers. Lowes will just raise their prices to cover it, that's economics 101. Great victory for the consumers of CA.
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Agreed. Lumberyards sell crap, too.
I've showed more than a few other customers how to "sight" along a 2 by 4 like aiming a rifle to find the ones that are straight. Of course, many that were perfectly straight in the store warped in fairly short order, some enough to ski with!
SH
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On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 3:03:07 AM UTC-7, Sherlock.Homes wrote:

<snip>

Heh! I did a total remodel on this shack I own to include removing the ent ire roof, rafters and all to change the roofline (was a hip, I needed a gab le to add an addition).
At lumberyard picked up a dozen 2x4 being a bit selective to build a tempor ary wall to support the ceiling while we were working on the roof. Finishe d that 'prop wall' in the evening. Next morning one of those 'hand picked' 2x4 had a perfet 90degree twist from top to bottom.
I have been there when they cut the bands on a 'lift' of 2x. The pile woul d expand considerably.
Harry K
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On 9/17/2014 3:03 AM, Sherlock.Homes wrote:

I worked at a lumber store as a teenager. It was a very useful skill to know the way to "sight" lumber.
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writes:

I just ran across this tid bit:
"In California, it's not permitted to use the same "nominal" terms to describe composite dimensional products. These composite products require actual dimensions to be used in labeling.
It is this area -- the composite area of building products -- where Lowe's originally ran afoul of a routine investigation from the State Division of Measurement Standards, according to sources."
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True. I first remember them as 1 5/8 x 3 5/8.
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dadiOH
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On 09/17/2014 6:59 AM, dadiOH wrote:

That's been a _loooong_ time back...the half-under is a lot more convenient for many reasons, not the least of which is the multiples are also halves...
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How's that working now that 3/4" ply isn't? :)
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dadiOH
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On 09/17/2014 7:02 AM, dadiOH wrote:

Still close enough for framing...as noted elsewhere within thread not so much for cabinetry w/o compensation.
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On 09/17/2014 7:40 AM, dpb wrote:

I was going to add that the solution rather than making the special trip is to simply drive the 10d (3") at a slight angle. While other than at a real full-line building supply or hardware, 9d are 3-1/4" while an 8d is kinda puny oftentimes.
I think locally there's nobody that carries the odd numbers any longer; the only remaining lumberyard is a DoItBest/Mead outlet and they're a bigbox wannabe and the old farm supply I normally trade at has been revamped into more of a home store by the son of the founder since he's taken over and it's become far less useful for it.
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On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 04:34:30 -0700, "Pico Rico"

That is what I found too. It gets this back to the ridiculous. If I buy a 5/4 hardwood deck board it will be about 1" thick but if I buy a 5/4th Trex it will have to be 1.25" thick. How is that better for the consumer again?
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