# Keeping door latches from freezing

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• posted on November 15, 2012, 1:12 pm

Please explain the physics behind the heat returning to the plant if the radiator is partially covered.
First tell us what kind of radiators they have and how you would cover them to accomplish your goal.

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• posted on November 15, 2012, 1:33 pm
Physics: If the circulating water is in insulated tube like the delivery system, the water retains the heat, rather than radiating it. If the water is in uninsulated metal such as a radiator, the heat radiates. If the radiator is insulated, the heat stays in the water, and the returning water is hotter, and needs less heating.
I've not been to Russia, and don't know the details. The article also didn't say. I'm guessing it's water circulation. Cast iron radiators. And, to "turn down the heat" would be to partly cover the radiators with something like fiberglass insulation, or a blanket.
wrote:

Please explain the physics behind the heat returning to the plant if the radiator is partially covered.
First tell us what kind of radiators they have and how you would cover them to accomplish your goal.

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<%-name%>
• posted on November 15, 2012, 9:03 pm
On Nov 15, 8:38 am, "Stormin Mormon"

So let's say you and I live in the same building. Just my family and yours for the sake of the discussion. My radiators are before yours in the system. I decide to cover 1/2 of my radiators to keep the heat down.
Wouldn't your apartment be hotter than before I covered my radiators? Based on your explanation - which I am not necessarily doubting - the water reaching your radiators would be hotter, therefore your radiators would radiate more heat, which would mean that you would have to cover more of your radiators than I did to maintain the same heat, right?
Then the outside temperature goes down and I want more heat, so I uncover 1/2 of the 1/2 I had covered. Now the water reaching your radiators is cooler, so you need more heat for 2 reasons: 1, it's colder outside and 2, the water reaching your radiator is cooler because more of the heat is radiating into my apartment. Therefore you have to uncover more of your radiator.
Now, extrapolate that out to 10 apartments or 50 or more. That seems like a lot of constant covering and uncovering to maintain a comfortable temperature in each apartment. Everytime someone makes a change, the whole building is affected.
I think I'd stick with opening and closing windows which only impact single apartments, or even single rooms within each apartment.

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• posted on November 15, 2012, 9:11 pm
On 11/15/2012 2:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

multiple loops. they're not all on the same loop. your example doesn't hold up.

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<%-name%>
• posted on November 15, 2012, 10:05 pm
Opening windows requires more fuel at the plant, regardless of the number of loops.
wrote in message On 11/15/2012 2:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

multiple loops. they're not all on the same loop. your example doesn't hold up.

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<%-name%>
• posted on November 15, 2012, 10:05 pm
Opening windows requires more fuel at the plant, regardless of the number of loops.
wrote in message On 11/15/2012 2:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

multiple loops. they're not all on the same loop. your example doesn't hold up.

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• posted on November 16, 2012, 2:48 am

Even if they were, the example assumes (1) the tenants care about other tenants and (2) they have half a clue about the effect of their actions.
--
Wes Groleau

βMissing a train is only painful if you run after it!β

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<%-name%>
• posted on November 16, 2012, 10:35 am

The example makes no such assumption. It discusses nothing more than cause and effect.

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<%-name%>
• posted on November 15, 2012, 10:05 pm
Lets say you're in apartment building with a lot of units. You're in the first apartment. You want the room colder, so you open the window. The room now has colder air, so there is greater delta T from the room to the radiator. The radiator loses heat faster, and cools to a lower temp (lower room temp) so the next guy gets colder water. And, the water going back to the heating plant is colder, also. So they use more fuel. See? Opening windows does at least two bad things. One of which is to cool the water that the later apartments need.
So let's say you and I live in the same building. Just my family and yours for the sake of the discussion. My radiators are before yours in the system. I decide to cover 1/2 of my radiators to keep the heat down.
Wouldn't your apartment be hotter than before I covered my radiators? Based on your explanation - which I am not necessarily doubting - the water reaching your radiators would be hotter, therefore your radiators would radiate more heat, which would mean that you would have to cover more of your radiators than I did to maintain the same heat, right?
Then the outside temperature goes down and I want more heat, so I uncover 1/2 of the 1/2 I had covered. Now the water reaching your radiators is cooler, so you need more heat for 2 reasons: 1, it's colder outside and 2, the water reaching your radiator is cooler because more of the heat is radiating into my apartment. Therefore you have to uncover more of your radiator.
Now, extrapolate that out to 10 apartments or 50 or more. That seems like a lot of constant covering and uncovering to maintain a comfortable temperature in each apartment. Everytime someone makes a change, the whole building is affected.
I think I'd stick with opening and closing windows which only impact single apartments, or even single rooms within each apartment.

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<%-name%>
• posted on November 15, 2012, 10:12 pm

This assumes there is 1 continous loop. Highly unlikely, don't you think? Probably the loops are for individual units, from a main central loop. So your return (colder) water does NOT have to heat someone else's unit. But the same reasoning for covering the radiator rather than opening a window still holds - total heat loss is less, and so operation is more economical.
--
Best regards
Han

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• posted on November 16, 2012, 12:32 am

So what are they missing in Siberia? Why are they still opening windows and not issuing radiator covers to all comrades? Maybe someone in the politburo should subscribe to usenet and start reading a.h.r.

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<%-name%>
• posted on November 16, 2012, 1:54 am

I hope you aren't literally asking me to asnwer that question <grin>. Perhaps it is because such a steam(?)-powered system is very efficient and cheap to operate (there are systems like that in other places too, such as parts of NY City). Perhaps it is there, and the fuel is rather cheap (Russia is an oil- and gas-exporting country, big time).
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Best regards
Han

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• posted on November 15, 2012, 10:08 pm
So let's say you and I live in the same building. Just my family and yours for the sake of the discussion. My radiators are before yours in the system. I decide to cover 1/2 of my radiators to keep the heat down.
CY:Yep.
Based on your explanation - which I am not necessarily doubting - the water reaching your radiators would be hotter, therefore your radiators would radiate more heat, which would mean that you would have to cover more of your radiators than I did to maintain the same heat, right?
CY: Yep.
Then the outside temperature goes down and I want more heat, so I uncover 1/2 of the 1/2 I had covered. Now the water reaching your radiators is cooler, so you need more heat for 2 reasons: 1, it's colder outside and 2, the water reaching your radiator is cooler because more of the heat is radiating into my apartment. Therefore you have to uncover more of your radiator.
CY: True.
Now, extrapolate that out to 10 apartments or 50 or more. That seems like a lot of constant covering and uncovering to maintain a comfortable temperature in each apartment. Everytime someone makes a change, the whole building is affected.
CY: Yes, very possible.
I think I'd stick with opening and closing windows which only impact single apartments, or even single rooms within each apartment.
CY: If covering radiators affects other apartments, do you think that super cooling the rads by exposing them to outdoor air will affect other apartments? I enjoy this technical discussion, and hope we can bounce the ideas back and forth. Pong! Coming your way....

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• posted on November 14, 2012, 2:49 pm
Maybe that's the secret. I need a fur coat,a nd to blubber more?
(blubbering)

Whenever I wonder about how to cope with problems due to very cold weather, I always look at what the Russians in Siberia do to cope. ^_^
http://rbth.ru/articles/2012/01/04/struggling_with_snow_14073.html
http://tinyurl.com/c7lebrh
TDD

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• posted on November 15, 2012, 4:50 am
I've been using aluminum foil over 2 hinges and a padlock at my side gate. I also use it on my car's wiper hinge (where it's attacked to the car body). That section is recessed a bit. Snow likes to collect and will then freeze which makes the wiper arm pop off. The foil keeps the area ice free. Except I have to remember to remove the foil before driving.

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<%-name%>
• posted on November 13, 2012, 10:11 pm
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 15:42:24 -0600, snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote:

No solution for you, but thought you'd like to know. My '50 Oldsmobile came with rubber covers for the keyholes in the door handles. Custom-fit, with short rubber straps that went around the open part of the handle, and had snaps to hold that end on. They were still in good condition in 1966 when I got the car. Although I didn't use them.

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• posted on November 14, 2012, 3:58 pm

For key holes use a commercial prepared lubricant designed to keep water out, and make sure the little flap over the key hole is working, it won't freeze if you keep the water out.
For push buttons, use a white grease around the button and work it in, again to keep water out so it won't freeze. Freezing rain will still build up over the button (and the key hole) making it difficult to use, but there is nothing you can do about it, other than keeping water from entering and freezing inside the mechanism.

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• posted on November 16, 2012, 9:19 am
Simple way to prevent latches from freezing is to apply Petroleum jelly or Vaseline.
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vincentverges