Katrina question

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Yup, "market prices" that magic, uncontrollable, all powerful force, that determines the price. Much of it is determined by a handful of oil companies that run the world's oil supply. No one tells them to lower oil prices much less tells them to raise the prices. They charge what they can get away with. After all would we want their management to have to forgo their multi million dollar bonuses for increasing the bottom line for this quarter!

prices.
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The same people bitching about oil prices will look at their 401k at the end of the year and think it is wonderful because the companies they hold make lots of profit.
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wrote in message

So you think gouging is ethical.
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FDR wrote:

Who, specifically is "gouging"? Something approaching 25% of the US supply of refined petroleum products was lost for an indefinite period and you expect the markets to not reflect that in an already tight world market?
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wrote:

Of course, make money while you can. The rich will get richer and let those who can't pay, walk!
God take care of the rich who can pay only.
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Where did I say that? Many people want to have it both ways. I'm in favor of profits for every business though.
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The consumer (us) have a fari amount of influence on commodity prices. My wife & I were going to drive ~700 miles ove the labor weekend but decided not to go because of $3/gallon gas.
If more people did this gas (& oil prices) would fall.
Carpool only onje or two days a week, take the bus Combine trips, forgo trips, etc
Small changes by all of us can make a big difference.
cheers Bob
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Absolutely.
And guess what ? If those handful of oil companies get together and say "hey arabs, we are only going to pay you fifty cents a barrel from now on"
Guess what? The arabs would still keep the taps on, as they can't get rid of the black goop fast enough. Prices would drop to 1950's levels overnight.
Aw wait, it's couldn't be THAT SIMPLE could it ?
AMUN

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Amun wrote:

No...as explained ad nauseum, global prices are set on and by the global major mercantile markets.
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Don't confuse the price of a barrel of oil with the price at the pump. The former is set on world markets. The latter is manipulated by the supply chain. The price of a barrel goes up 10% and the price at the pump goes up 25%. Look at the fraction of the pump price that actually reflects the cost of oil and then realize the the other costs are largely fixed in the short term and it's pretty obvious that the pump price is theft. And as another poster pointed out - the oil in the supply chain is already paid for - at lower prices.
Mike
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Michael Daly wrote:

Actually gasoline is also traded on the exchanges...
http://www.nymex.com/gas_pre_agree.aspx
It tracks oil (obviously) in pretty close lock-step. At the pump prices are affected by local and federal taxes, transportation, and regional and local requirements for specific additives/mixtures for environmental (mostly) purposes, and competition.
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And those prices are either fixed in the short term or are a percentage of the retail price (taxes). That proves nothing. It still remains that the full retail price at the pump is manipulated independent of the wholesale price of oil or gasoline.
Mike
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Michael Daly wrote:

Not totally independent if you'll simply look at the mercantile exchange closing prices for the two commodities you'll find they're quite highly (positively) correlated.
And I said local prices are "affected by" not totally controlled by...
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On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 10:08:12 -0500, Duane Bozarth

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Gasoline futures surged 14 percent last week while crude oil prices gained only 2 percent.

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Tom Miller wrote:

....
....
Ant that is still a positive correlation...it would be difficult to conceive of them being totally independent as one is the raw material for the other.
And, of course, I started this subthread branch by pointing out that there are open markets for both products...
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On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 13:43:13 -0500, Duane Bozarth

There was a large disparity between gasoline futures and crude futures last week. It's a 12% difference. That's a lot.
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Tom Miller wrote:

Short term fluctuations are not unusual...just look at the data over a period of time...
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On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 16:31:41 -0500, Duane Bozarth

We're talking about a sudden rise in gasoline prices. Don't change the subject. If you want to talk about investing, I'll be happy to teach you.
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Tom Miller wrote:

You're the one who seems to have changed the subject...I simply pointed out (quite a bit earlier) that gasoline is a commodity traded on the open mercantile markets which is where wholesale prices a pegged as opposed to being unilateraly set by some specific entity. Retail prices hence follow with various other factors and forces, some of which I have also mentioned.
I have no idea what you're onto now.
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Duane Bozarth wrote:

The flaw in your argument is your apparent belief that all gasoline is traded on the open market; that is simply untrue. The open market reflects sales of excess capacity, or by independent refiners (if you can find one). The bulk of US gas has its wholesale price established by the refiner, who controls the distribution and the marketing. A station that sells a name brand gas is contractually bound to buy from that manufacturer at the price set by that manufacturer, and does not enjoy the freedom to pick up some extra product on the spot market.
Price gouging is a meaningless emotional term used by name callers who are upset that they themselves lacked the foresight to buy something that would go up in price. Yes, the station owner makes more than he anticipated on his current inventory, just as he will lose money on the replacement inventory when prices decline. That is capitalism, and it has worked very well for the US.
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