Joining stringers for long stairs

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I have this botched job a "pro" did for me. Unfortunately there are no bui lding codes here so the only option is to sue in small claims court, and th at is not a sure thing either due to the lack of codes here.
The stairway is 18 steps long, outside up to the attic/loft of my garage. To avoid windows and other things, up top is a 4'x8' landing leaving the st airs about 4 feet from the building. Instead of ordering special order str ingers long enough, he used 2 sets and he did a number on how they join and are supported in the middle of the run. I've been going through multiple idea's on how to fix it (multiple problems) and I've gotten to the point wh ere I'm thinking of making something out of steel U channel that would fit the 2x12 stringers at the bottom edge, centered at the stringer joints, not sure how far to extend it, an I'd weld upside down U's to fit 4x4 posts to set on and be bolted to. Without you seeing this I suppose this is hard o r impossible thing to picture?
Lets say you have an idea that uses wood and doesn't involve welding. How would you join these stringers? I searched and searched and could not find anything like my situation. I believe most builders would have put a 4'x4 ' landing between the two sets. This guy put a not quite double depth step in the middle because he didn't realize he was doing it until he put on th e treads. I plan on cutting that one extra step and sliding the lower set of stringers forward to properly meet the upper stringers. A 4x4 landing i s not possible, the steps would extend too far into the driveway. If you h ave a picture that would be great although I'm not sure where we could post them, I assume they aren't allowed here. Thanks, Tony
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On 05/31/2016 5:55 PM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote: ...

Measure perpendicular from the straight edge of a stringer to the inside corner of a tread and riser notch. Cut a piece of 3/4-inch plywood 48" inches long the same width.
Use 1/2" hot dip galvanized or SS machine bolts w/ flat washer on both sides and bolt thru at pairs of holes at 6" intervals from end to end on the plywood. Use an additional pair of holes 2 inches each way of the seam where the stringers butt together.
I'd augment with a good-quality construction adhesive on assembly as well.
Alternatively, if you can, remove the treads and use the full-width ply flange and saw out the notches. Add an additional bolt in the mid of each riser.
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On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 8:04:37 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:

Sounds like we're heading in the right direction, but I only have 5.5" ther e, is that enough? I'd do it on both sides but he has the 4x4 support post s notched 1/2 way for the stringer to sit on and the other half of the 4x4 (2x4) goes up and back to 4x4 up to the railings. Also the balusters would have to come off and put back on the outside of the plywood. Not a deal b reaker though. That is on one side (the side that shows of course) the oth er side the 4x4 is notched and sits on the outside of the stringer so I cou ld do the same with the plywood but on the inside where it will only be see n through the open risers. They goofed up at the top with the 4x4's so one railing hangs over the outside edge, and the other side the railing hangs on the inside where you walk. I'll have to give this a look again tomorrow in the light. Also I assume I will still need support under the middle to the ground? (there are small footers for the vertical 4x4's but I don't k now if they will still line up, I may have to dig some new ones.) Then aga in, the support posts may not need to be perfectly centered with the plywoo d on there. Another thing to look at tomorrow. Great Start though!! Thank s! Oh, I was curious but forgot to measure until now, they aren't 7:11, th ey are 7:10 stringers. Not bad since I have a short 5 step set going up to the front porch that are 8:10, so I'm used to it. I'd like to tear off al l the railings and start over but he used a nail gun with ring shanked nail s. Hmm, I wonder if they are even made for use with pressure treated wood? He dropped one thing of nails, how do I know if they are for pressure tre ated wood?
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On 05/31/2016 8:59 PM, Tony Botchagaloop wrote: ...

I also looked at the picture -- while it would be "stout-enough" with some effort such as described that it wouldn't be an imminent hazard I must agree with the others that it's so cobbled up it's not worth trying to salvage imo.
Unfortunate, but I think your only real recourse to get anything satisfactory in the end at this point is to start over; it's just got too too many "issues" to ever be put to rights.
I presumed it was simply a case where there was a joist joint that needing some strengthening; this is incredible where nothing fits and there's no symmetry or anything. Being made "functional" would still leave an eyesore that won't ever go away.

Basically need to know the manufacturer's spec...for ACQ it's either stainless or hot-dipped galvanized that are approved.
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On 5/31/2016 6:55 PM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Sounds like a terrible way of doing something, but I'm sure it can be fixed. The method dpb suggested would work. He suggested 48", but I'd go even longer.
You mention they are supported in the middle of the run. Do you mean something from the stringer to the ground? I'd do that.
You can post a photo at various web sites and post a link. tinypic.com is one.
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On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 9:24:27 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

d that is not a sure thing either due to the lack of codes here.

e stairs about 4 feet from the building. Instead of ordering special order stringers long enough, he used 2 sets and he did a number on how they join and are supported in the middle of the run. I've been going through multi ple idea's on how to fix it (multiple problems) and I've gotten to the poin t where I'm thinking of making something out of steel U channel that would fit the 2x12 stringers at the bottom edge, centered at the stringer joints, not sure how far to extend it, an I'd weld upside down U's to fit 4x4 post s to set on and be bolted to. Without you seeing this I suppose this is ha rd or impossible thing to picture?

Yes there are 3 4x4's from the joint in the stringer to the ground (small c oncrete pads) The pic to prevent sway was my fist concern so I tore it off and added 2 2x4's to make an X. Then I was looking at the bad cuts and di dn't even realize at first how the upper stringer support basically gave it about 1" of support if the wood were to split. I put temporary braces und er that because I had to get up to the loft with some heavy stuff. I could n't believe he left the middle stringer like that when he left for the day. The next morning by the time I got out there he had all the treads on. I showed it to him and he looked at the kid helping him and said "tear off a ll those steps". I already saw the mess he made pulling out one step and d idn't want him to do more harm than good, so I told him to take a sawzall b etween the stringer and the treads and cut the nails, then move it over, an d it's still crooked!
I had paid for the materials since I had a special 10% off offer from Lowes and at first I paid him for the labor. After realizing just how poor thin gs were I canceled the check, then called him and told him. He said he wou ld fix it all and sent 3 guys here this morning but he didn't show. I told them to start with making the middle step the same as the rest. They said no, they would fix other stuff I didn't even show here. One more time I t old them to fix the middle step, they said no so I told them to leave.
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On 5/31/2016 11:26 PM, Tony Botchagaloop wrote:

OMG. I'd consider starting over. What a mess.
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Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us...

and it's still crooked!

I agree. The first picture really brought out the incompetence. The stairs probably don't have same rise and tread.
The only method other than stringer replacement is to install posts and splices under the existing splice point. You will have to install extra framing to x-brace to knit the top and bottom sections together. It's not worth it. Or put a landing in which will be more work.
--
Tekkie

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On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 11:26:21 PM UTC-4, Tony Botchagaloop wrote:

and that is not a sure thing either due to the lack of codes here.

the stairs about 4 feet from the building. Instead of ordering special ord er stringers long enough, he used 2 sets and he did a number on how they jo in and are supported in the middle of the run. I've been going through mul tiple idea's on how to fix it (multiple problems) and I've gotten to the po int where I'm thinking of making something out of steel U channel that woul d fit the 2x12 stringers at the bottom edge, centered at the stringer joint s, not sure how far to extend it, an I'd weld upside down U's to fit 4x4 po sts to set on and be bolted to. Without you seeing this I suppose this is hard or impossible thing to picture?

ff and added 2 2x4's to make an X. Then I was looking at the bad cuts and didn't even realize at first how the upper stringer support basically gave it about 1" of support if the wood were to split. I put temporary braces u nder that because I had to get up to the loft with some heavy stuff. I cou ldn't believe he left the middle stringer like that when he left for the da y. The next morning by the time I got out there he had all the treads on. I showed it to him and he looked at the kid helping him and said "tear off all those steps". I already saw the mess he made pulling out one step and didn't want him to do more harm than good, so I told him to take a sawzall between the stringer and the treads and cut the nails, then move it over, and it's still crooked!

ings were I canceled the check, then called him and told him. He said he w ould fix it all and sent 3 guys here this morning but he didn't show. I to ld them to start with making the middle step the same as the rest. They sa id no, they would fix other stuff I didn't even show here. One more time I told them to fix the middle step, they said no so I told them to leave.

...and thus the reason most places have building codes.
What is that second image? It sure isn't your stairs.
Aside from all the other issues, that middle step is a major tripping hazar d. It's not wide enough to be considered a landing, so it's really nothing more than a step that's wid er than the others. As my grandfather the mason used to say regarding steps: "The feet remember".
Take tons of pictures, get a a couple of written estimates from other contr actors, hopefully saying that is must be taken down and rebuilt, and go to small claims court.
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DerbyDad03 posted for all of us...

It's spam for some s/w
--
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On 06/01/2016 01:37 PM, Tekkie® wrote:

Or it might be more BGP if ya know what I mean.
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On Tue, 31 May 2016 20:26:17 -0700 (PDT), Tony Botchagaloop

the stringers, overlapping the joint 100% with the second stringer? I'd do all 3, full lenth. Splice the new lumber in the middle of the 2 old peices on each stringer. Screw and glue.
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On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 2:11:06 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

There is still the problem of the middle step being a different tread depth than the others.
As Tony said in his OP, the contractor put "not quite double depth step" where the 2 stringers meet. Even a double depth step would probably be safer since the user would be (might be?) able to take an extra step just like they would on a landing. A "not quite double depth step" sounds like a fall just waiting to happen, especially when carrying things down the stairs.
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On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 2:34:50 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I'll be taking care of that mis cut end, well 95% of it then I will add blo cks in the little space. I actually had cut pieces to fit in that void but took them out before they came to fix things.
Anyway I thought I said it but maybe not. I plan on cutting the lower stri ngers horizontally from the 2nd from top step. Cutting out the 4x4 more an d at an angle, then sliding the entire lower section forward to fit exactly under the top stringers and on top of its new footer. I'll have everythin g braced and 2 helpers. Then comes the plywood and bolts. I had also give n the thought of short stringers centered over the joint, but it would be t hat much more the balusters would stick out. I assume the plywood will be pressure treated, hate to think of what that will cost. Should I leave it out in the sun for a while before installing ... or never mind I guess I co uld use Gorilla glue on wet wood?
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On 06/01/2016 2:02 PM, Tony Botchagaloop wrote: ...

Absolutely forget the "gorilla glue"; it's terrible for the purpose (actually, it's not _much_ good for anything, when get right down to it other than cash cow for Gorilla Glue Co.).
It will only bond well on well-fitted fresh wood surfaces and under clamping pressure; the vaunted "gap filling" properties of polyurethane glues (which it is) is nonsense; it just foams and leaves a worthless blob which has absolutely no strength whatsoever.
Use something like <http://www.liquidnails.com/products/construction-adhesive-LN940 or similar instead.
Exterior ply isn't particularly expensive, and there's no advantage in leaving it out first; unlike construction lumber, it's dry already (altho you _can_ get dried PT lumber one can be sure a bunch of bozo's like this didn't use it :) ).
--


Use

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a circular saw and had a plume of more water than sawdust.
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On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 12:02:15 -0700 (PDT), Tony Botchagaloop

ballisters. I'd use PL Plus to glue it, and I'd want the wood pretty dry.
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On Wednesday, June 1, 2016 at 5:42:10 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

If the right side was the same as the left, that would be no problem. But it's not, so it is.
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On Wed, 1 Jun 2016 11:34:46 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

to just start over and do it right. I can't figure out how some guys think they can call themselves "CONTRACTORS" or even "HANDYMEN"
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On 05/31/2016 04:55 PM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I looked at your pics. My opinion is to hire a contractor that knows WTF they are doing. I'd be worried the insurance company would refuse to renew my policy when it expires.
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