Is There An Electrician in the House?

There is no local electrical code, I'm outside city limits. I checked with the city building folks before my panel replacement project and they said essentially, have fun, be careful.

The interlock kit is manufactured by Square D and is rated and approved for the Square D panel it is installed in. There are no secondary meters or utility remotes anywhere around here and the same potential issues with them would apply regardless of whether a transfer switch or interlock kit were used.

Pete C.

Reply to
Pete C.
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I was there in Silver Spring, MD during the late nineties ice storm when the outside superintendent took a climbing harness out of the trunk of his sedan and climbed a pole in order to drop the service drop for an offending house into the front yard. They could not get power back until a master electrician certified that their property was free of any uncontrolled energy source connected to it's wiring. The home is now powered through an manual transfer switch which the owner had to install at his own expense.

Reply to
Tom Horne, Electrician

Oh Please Doug. Explain the operation of a split buss panel! What is the relationship between the dryer breaker of a split buss panel and the main breaker? How does the service lateral to a detached garage and a previously existing or newly installed lighting circuit that originates in the house affect the reliability of the house's main breaker as an isolating switch? How does the existence of a long disused meter tap for off peak metering effect the likelihood of harm? How does the presence of off peak metering connection and the faulting of a heating element in the water heater effect outside wiremen safety? How much will you bet that your suicide cord will never fall into the wrong hands?

Why does the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) website contain several Fatality Assessment and Control Evaluation(FACE) reports on linemen killed by generator back feeds? Do you think each of those several generator users woke up one day and said I think I'd like to kill someone today. I want to rend the hearts of an unoffending widow and orphans with unavailing grief.

Reply to
Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT

Both the furnace and well pump can be wired to safely except power from extension cords, in complete compliance with the National Electric Code, for less than fifty dollars. But you would rather put a similar amount of money into making a suicide cord. Smart. Real Smart.

Reply to
Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT

Reply to
Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT

Pete You ASS/U/ME these folks understand what the implications of those facts is. Ask puddin to explain the effect of the service transformer on the output voltage of his suicide cord connected, back fed generator if any sneak current path should exist between the inside wiring and the service drop. I'll bet you a hundred in cash that if he does it's because he learned if after reading my question.

Reply to
Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT

Furnaces have always been required to be hardwired per (2002) NEC

422.16(A), and have a disconnect at the furnace if it is not within sight of the distribution panel that supplies the circuit. Also, on old furnaces that have the old combo fuse/switches, the fuse _is_ the overload protection for the motor. Installing a cord cap and flexible cord on that equipment would leave the furnace motor without overload protection when it is plugged into the generator.
Reply to
volts500

Doug doesn't understand that not every home is wired the same as his because if he did he would have to admit that he is giving dangerous deadly advice. And since Doug's absolute perfection would prevent him from forgetting to turn off the main breaker it follows that his absolutely perfect advice applies universally, will never be misunderstood, and that no one following that advice will ever be impaired by alcohol, drugs, or even Over The Counter (OTC) cold medication. You see Doug, and therefor everyone who follows his advice is much too perfect to ever under any circumstances commit a human error like a mere mortal such as myself. We should all be awed to be in the presence of such brilliance.

Reply to
Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT

Yes there is and linemen have died because of it.

Reply to
Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT

That's why the main breaker should be megged after the interlock is installed to check for sneak current paths.

Reply to
Tom Horne, Electrician

I think I'll just trust a brand new Square D 200A breaker. I have never, ever heard of anyone inspecting a residential electrical panel and testing breakers with a megger.

Pete C.

Reply to
Pete C.

WTF are you talking about? I have the 2002 NEC in front of me, open to article 422.16(a) and it in no way indicates a furnace needs to be hardwired.

Pete C.

Reply to
Pete C.

Is a furnace an electrical appliance? (422.1)

Are furnaces FREQUENTLY interchanged?

Are the fastening means and mechanical connections for furnaces specifically designed to permit _ready_ removal for maintinance and repair?

If you can answer the last two questions yes, then a flexible cord is permitted on a furnace, even then it would have to come from the factory with a flexible cord. Same reason for well pumps, water heaters, etc.

Better yet, show me the code cite that says that they _don't_ have to be hardwired.

Quoted from 2002 NEC:

"422.16 Flexible Cords. (A) General. Flexible cord shall be permitted (1) for the connection of appliances to facilitate their FREQUENT interchange or to prevent transmission of noise or vibration or (2) to facilitate the removal or disconnection of appliances that are fastened in place, where the fastening means and mechanical connections are SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to permit READY removal for maintenance or repair AND the appliance is intended or identified for flexible cord connection."

Reply to
volts500

Makes perfect sense to me... but it's not quite the same situation as the "you will never get service again" claim that I said sounded like an urban legend.

Reply to
Doug Miller

OK, you want to explain that one?

Reply to
Doug Miller

Read: "or to prevent transmission of noise or vibration". That's all the justification I need. And yes, any installation I have anything to do with has plumbing unions and whatnot to facilitate easy removal as well.

Pete C.

Reply to
Pete C.

It's not like you're wiring a primary crusher and its' accessory motors in a mine. THAT would be a reason to use flexible cord. This thread is already pervaded with misinformation and gerry rigging, don't add to it.

Why are millions of furnaces hard-wired? Why does Article 424 (Fixed Electric Space-Heating Equipment), specifically, 424.19 Disconnecting Means, make absolutely _no_ mention of using a flexible cord and cord cap as a disconnecting means while other Articles in the NEC do allow a flexible cord with a cord cap to be a disconnect for certain equipment? Could it be because wiring a fixed space heating equipment with flexible cord and a cord cap isn't even a consideration in the eyes of the NEC?

Reply to
volts500

How do you explain article 424.3(a) which specifically references branch circuits supplying *outlets* for fixed electric space heating equipment?

Pete C.

Reply to
Pete C.

Outlets are not necessarily receptacles. The NEC defines an outlet in Article 100 as: "A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment."

Reply to
volts500

I can't speak to either of these. If either actually occurred, p'raps there was some justification, p'raps not.

How-sum-ever ...

Scenario:

Tiny house with obviously minimal standard residential power lines, main breaker svc. panel in good condition. Single occupant, who wired the panel, installed pigtails, etc. Lives like a hermit, no non-service folks are allowed on property.

Elec. utility fails contract to supply power, massive outage ensues. Temp. is "Nine Below Zero" (which is also the title of an old blues tune ...). Obvious emergency.

Hermit determines (via past experience) that power could be out for many days. Situates little 40A gas generator in back yard. Switches main breaker off. Clips seal, removes meter, stores such inside house.

Back feeds svc. panel via 40A socket on elec. dryer. Does "the arithmetic of amperage" quite handily. Generally runs only 'fridge, furnace blower and a few lights.

Utility supervisor arrives. Hermit offers to do anything in short-term: allow inspection of svc. panel, shut down generator, hand over meter, etc.

Utility supervisor disconnects power line from house, nominally because hermit is in possession of generator which could, if not properly used, endanger linemen. Sez $1000+ of work must be done on hermits eqpt (knowing noone is available to do it).

How to explain such action:

A.) Action was valid. No homeowner can be trusted in any circumstance (potentially including the linemen and supv., as most of them are homeowners).

B.) 'Tis simply customer abuse. We see it in both the public and private sectors. The problem is on their side of the fence, the emergency is obvious, but they, with monopoly power, refuse to even talk to the folks that they purportedly serve.

You be the judge!

Glad to note that I've not heard of any such insanities hereabouts.

Salud, Puddin'

"Every generator sold to a residential customer is another testament to the inedequacy of one or more electrical utilities."

Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old ...

Reply to
Puddin' Man

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