Is There An Electrician in the House?

No.

Lots of people think that -- but nobody's been able to show me where the Code says that...

Reply to
Doug Miller
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"Flipping A breaker" isn't going to do any harm at all unless it's the MAIN breaker.

Keep the main breaker off, and that won't happen.

Flipping the main breaker from off to on isn't the sort of thing that's going to happen due to a "momentary lapse of attentiveness".

Yes, it's a Code violation. Yes, it's illegal. In an emergency, so what?

As for dangerous -- only if the main breaker is on.

Are you a lawyer?

Reply to
Doug Miller

Dead linemen?

Yeah, yeah... You switched off the main breaker, but, in your urgency and in the dark, flipped the WRONG breaker.

Properly install and use a transfer switch or just run some extension cords to essential appliances during the outage.

Reply to
Jim Redelfs

Oh, puhleeeze... don't be ridiculous.

If he has enough light (from a flashlight, candle, oil lamp, moonlight, sunlight, cig lighter, Coleman lantern, jar full of fireflies, or whatever) to connect the generator, how do you imagine that he can't see which breaker is the main?

For that matter, even in the dark, how does he not *feel* which breaker is the main?

And of course it should be obvious that, once the generator is on, there

*will* be lights available to check to make *sure* that the main is off.

Or be aware of the difference between real and imagined hazards, take steps to prevent the real ones (such as making sure the main breaker is off), and ignore the imagined ones. Yes, a transfer switch is the right way to do it. No, you can't just run an extension cord to a furnace or a well pump. In an emergency, you do what you have to do.

Reply to
Doug Miller

Thanks, Doug.

I purchased/installed/wired the svc. panel 21 years ago. Chose it for it's simplicity. One huge 200A main breaker in the top, well segregated from smaller breakers.

The entire planet could be plunged into eternal darkness at the same time that gremlins from outer space put out my eyes. I could -still- find my way downstairs and identify the main breaker and switch off with no difficulty.

And if there were any doubt, I'd go outside, snip the seal, pull the meter, and plop the damned thang down on my workbench in the basement.

In an emergency, is a no-brainer.

Cheers, Puddin'

PS: Who believes that linesmen just *grab* conductors without testing for voltage, etc? Who believes that 30A, 'tho admittedly dangerous, is really likely to result in a fatality?

Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old ...

Reply to
Puddin' Man

Your logic is impeccapble, but linemen have indeed died that way, which is why the ones that live get so grumpy about it when they find you with a non-compliant setup.

Reply to
Goedjn

Right, the panel is a listed enclosure where you can make splices. It's more of a best practices thing since the panel tends to get crowded anyway and having splices and pigtails in the panel just makes it that much messier.

Pete C.

Reply to
Pete C.
[snip]

Like the one time you forgot to turn it off before starting the generator.

Reply to
Mark Lloyd

Why do you expect perfection? Such a thing doesn't exist, and can't. There is no way to be 100% certain of not making a mistake.

They could have just tested the line, found it dead, and touched it. THEN you start your generator...

I suppose your generator outputs 240V/30A. Forget to disconnect from the power lines, and that is connected to the lower voltage side of a transformer with a ratio of around 80:1. Those "dead" main lines are now carrying 19.2KV/375mA (somewhat less since the transformer won't be 100% efficient). That's more than enough to be fatal.

Was that supposed to be a sig? Where's the separator line?

Reply to
Mark Lloyd

I believe it is covered by NEC 312.8 - "Enclosures for switches or overcurrent devices". Splices are allowed if the fill at any cross-section is 75% or less.

Wires running through the enclosure are allowed if the fill at any cross-section is 40% or less. An example would be if the panel ran out of breakers, existing breakers could be removed to add a breaker for a subpanel and the wires for the original breakers could be run through the panel to the new subpanel.

-- bud--

Reply to
Bud--

Amen.

Reply to
CJT

Ever heard of Murphy's law?

Reply to
CJT

Since this is apparently an anticipated event (or we wouldn't be discussing it), there's no excuse for allowing it to escalate into an emergency.

Reply to
CJT

We don't have to speculate. It has happened.

Reply to
CJT

Believe it. Why do you suppose ground-fault circuit interrupters have a trip threshold of five *milli* amperes?

Reply to
Doug Miller

Well, maybe so, maybe not. I have very recent experience with that: three weeks ago exactly, a tree limb fell on my service drop during a windstorm. When the linemen came out to re-string the service, I asked them if they wanted me to shut off my generator. Crew boss asked if the main breaker was open (i.e., off). Told him it was. He said I could leave the genny running.

I'm sure they checked, first, before touching anything... but they did the entire repair with the generator up.

Reply to
Doug Miller

Garbage.

This...

.. is a 100% certain way of not making the mistake of backfeeding the utility lines.

Reply to
Doug Miller

Ever heard of paying attention to what you're doing?

Reply to
Doug Miller

Sure, and in a perfect world ever home would have a transfer switch already installed.

Is there one in your house?

Reply to
Doug Miller

Right, their comfort level will vary with the situation. In your case they were dealing with secondary voltage only since it was just your drop that was down, not primaries on the street. They also only had a single residence in question, with a generator already running. They asked and in the process reminded you about the main breaker and also got some impression of your competence. And of course at 120/240V their gloves provide plenty of protection even if there was a back feed.

Pete C.

Reply to
Pete C.

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