Is There An Endgrain In Particleboard?

A customer called me today and said that the keeper for a lock that we use for their showcases is screwed into the endgrain of the particleboard. This connection is failing, they say.
I have my own opinion on this but I would like to know if my fellow Wreckers think that there is any directionality to particleboard.
I already understand that this is made under a hot press, which increases the density of the board on its face but, is there any difference in holding power for a screw driven through the face v. the edge?
I'm talking about a screw that goes into the board for 1-1/4".
Glad to hear an opinion.
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 (webpage)

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You DO have to use special screws in particle board. Take a look at this first, then do a search on particle board in their search bar.
http://www.mcfeelys.com/multiple.asp?productID �15-HD
I hate particle board - mdf/hdf/osb - all glue with a waste material binder. Only place I use it is for the extension table on my unisaw and on a couple of sliding tables for power tools.

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If we accept modern as "last 100 years", then we've just missed the timeslot for a designer you'd surely agree was better than Stickley - Harvey Ellis. Looking at any of the "Gustav Stickley" designs the good stuff is Ellis', the lumpy ugly ones are Gustavs. Sadly the rarity of their sales was such that Gustav's are now rarer and more valuable.
Although I do accept your general point, it's also a little unfair to some of the less well-known but equally skilled designers of recent years - some of whom are working very much in Stickley's (or Ellis') style itself.

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The problem is that these designers don't have a factory behind them. With no factory, they can never ever get into a "furniture store". Therefore, for most Americans, they do not exist.
I'm tired of spending thousands of dollars (Henredon and others) on stuff that is destined to end up at the curb on bulk trash day. From what I can see as I pass through furniture stores, everything (mass market oriented) is designed to be "temporary" and discarded as fashions change next year.
Changed my sig...

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:01:38 +0000, the inscrutable Andy Dingley
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I saw quite a few Stickley and Ellis/Stickley repros in Anchorage, AK when I was there a couple years ago. I just love Ellis' stuff!
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Yes, indeed. Harvey was Stickley's premier designer. Robert Lang just put out a book on his inlay work. I hope to be doing some of that in the near future, along with a few other projects.

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Just found this site: http://www.arts-crafts.com when I was searching for info on another bookcase ( Charles Limbert ). I've started digging up lots of names because I bought a complete CD-ROM copy of "The Craftsman" from 1901 through 1916 on eBay. This is the guy I bought it from:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&itemE26387303
I discovered (much to my amazement) that William Morris the chair designer also wrote a book that I enjoyed very much.

Ed Clarke wrote:
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Morris wrote a lot more than one book! He was a 19th Century polymath who designed everything from furniture to fabrics and wrote books from fiction to poetry to books on design.
Find some more of his stuff. You're likely to be astonished at his range and inspired by his thoughts on design.
--RC

On 10 Feb 2005 23:53:33 GMT, the inscrutable Ed Clarke
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Looks interesting. Is it worth the steep price? I have over a dozen very nice A&C books now, including 2 of Lang's Craftsman furniture books and the latest, "Shop Drawings for Craftsman Inlays & Hardware : Original Designs by Gustav Stickley and Harvey Ellis" (Shop Drawings series)
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He was a prolific author. His fabric designs are still being reproduced by Sanderson in GB. Lovely stuff going for a mere $40 to $60/yd. <thud> http://www.sanderson-uk.com

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What you get is eight CD-ROMs with pdf files of each issue of "The Craftsman". The files are searchable and printable with one exception. The "Index" file is a modern compilation that includes the table of contents of every issue and that is not printable except through some contortions to defeat the no-print security flag.
This is not simply a bunch of plans; it includes things like an essay by a stained glass worker complaining about how the customer screws up the "art" and cheapens the product. "12th century stained glass lasts 700 years exposed to the elements; modern stained glass needs to be kept behind outer glass due to flimsyness of construction."
I notice a significant number of woman authors in the contents. I'd been under the impression that women were kitchen dwellers or household managers at that time (1901-1916). Guess I was wrong, at least in the A&C community.
All in all, I'm glad that I spent the $50. I'm learning a lot, and not just about woodworking.

On 11 Feb 2005 15:36:13 GMT, the inscrutable Ed Clarke
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That's good! There have always been a few women artists, and Elizabeth Eaton Burton has always been my favorite of those. Look for her lamps and leather + hammered copper book covers. Outstanding!
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I wish they'd put out a paper version. I'd much rather read things like that in their original format.
Thanks for the review, Ed.
-- Vidi, Vici, Veni --- http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

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I'm always a bit surprised at the number of women who influenced history. We've been taught that men did everything and women stayed home to raise kids and run the house but it just wasn't true. There were many women involved outside the home in the A&C movement and history in general- not just laborers, but real innovators and influential. Names escape me at the moment, but I know I've read at least a few instances of women running companies plus taking over ownership when their husbands died. Just fer instance, Charles R. Makintosh's wife was a designer in her own right and they partnered with another husband and wife couple in Glasgow. I don't remember her name because the sexism, at that time and since, has generated more recognition for her husband. Sad really.

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You have got to be kidding. I drove one of those in high school.
SteveP.

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Kidding about what? That some clown paid 150K or that it was a bad car?
*G*
The Barrett Jackson auction site will have more to say about it. May have been a special engine/transmission combo...limited production? Who knows?.... but 150 grand?? Hell, that's more money than all the tools in the Festool catalogue!!! 150 grand?? That's an upgrade to my home theatre set-up...like a NEW HOME!

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Of the mass market manufacturers of the time, I think many of Limbert's designs are outstanding and set themselves apart from the Stickley's. The cutouts and gothic arches, I find very appealing. I would agree with Ellis' designs too - especially the beautiful inlay pieces.
The Roycrofters is a puzzler to me - they branded almost all of their furniture with a big ol' Roycroft logo right on the very front. Signing one's work is one thing, but sheesh.
Of course, as I'm sure you know, the A&C movement was all about honoring the individual artisan and craftsman and rejecting the factory clones brought about by industrialization of the late Victorian era. It was about purposeful design and not merely because the technology to stamp out thousands of copies of an intricate design by machine was now possible. (Just because one can do something doesn't mean it adds value to the end product.) The irony is that the very movement that honored the skill of the individual was appropriated by mass production factories wherein the worker was just an operator of a machine.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 01:29:05 -0800, Fly-by-Night CC
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Limbert ?! I find their stuff indeed distinctive, but the random arches and mad cutouts have more in common with '60s sub-Tolkien than with the Gothic period.
Is there any truth in the rumour that the Seven Dwarves' house in Disney's Snow White was furnished in Limbert designs ?

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Well I find both of these tables very attractive: <http://www.treadwaygallery.com/ONLINECATALOGS/March2004/ACWEB/0037.jpg
<http://www.treadwaygallery.com/ONLINECATALOGS/March2004/ACWEB/0034.jpg
I'm planning on building a couple of the smaller ones (#34 jpg).
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Funny you should say that! The last couple times I've seen the movie (I have a young daughter who plays her movies over and over and over), I thought, "It would be so cool to have a house like that. The carved door, owl stairs and everything."

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I also watched in amusement for what these cars sold for...
I am an older lifelong "Car Freak" and have a 68 SS 396 Chevelle and 5 older Corvettes resting until spring in my garages right now...
But the fact remains that the value of some cars when fully documented and equipped the right way .....and ... stripped models that were ordered from the factory with very high performance engines under their hoods...etc... were equipped the right way... .
No I would not pay 150 big ones for the Satellite nor would I have paid 350 big ones for the Chevelle that sold at the same auction.. these were very exceptional and rare cars that were offered for sale at the right time to the right crowd...
I only wish that I could now Infer or say my Chevelle is worth 175 Big ones because it is very similar to the one that sold for 350K.... heck 20K is much more like its true value...and even at that price it would not sell in a day or two...
Bob Griffiths

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Ohh, don't get me wrong, I love a nice car as much as the next guy, maybe even more. I'd drop 300 big ones on the right Bentley. TWO problems though...the right Bentley would cost 5 times that and I don't have 300 grand.
...

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Wellll i gots my own thoughts on PB as well but we wont go into that! lol.. :-]> as far as i can tell its all end grain! however screws do seem to hold better into the face side. you absolutely must pre bore it though as i'm sure you are aware. and glue the heel outta it too ! is there some way to incorporate real wood into the mix where the lock is? just a thought.
skeez

I have see the presses that make this stuff and have learned the manufacturing process. DAMW!
These boards are actually (usually) multi layered - again most boards are 4 to 6 layers. (Fiber, resin, fiber, resin, fiber,resin, fiber - then cook in the press - cookie sheet or continuous roller style) There is "some orientation" of the fibers in particle board and fiber board. Again - depends on the board and the manufacturer. Been through a lot of plants... Never saw any that weren't like this - but somebody always knows more. :-)
There is a normally a finer layer of fibers on the outside (face) of the board (except -- I think -- on the very coarsest boards - the Oriented Strand Board -- OSB style). My own experience is that screws hold better on the face - not the ends. probably this is due to the press action and a greater compression 90 deg. to the face of the board.
Next time you are in the lumber yard take a close look at the construction of the different styles -- you should be able to see the layers. MDF is usually the easiest to see the layering.
Just wear a dust mask when you cut that crud.
Tom Watson wrote:
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