Losing one leg is not all that uncommon, at least around here. I've seen this at least three time in the past year -- all problems that the local utility had to fix. As another poster has mentioned - the tip off is if every other circuit is off. Also, be careful of back feeds through 220v appliances like ranges, water heaters and dryers.
I'll bite.
Suppose I've got a (residential) 200A main breaker panel, and the street power fails.
I switch off the main breaker and use a gas powered 40A generator to backfeed the 30A (220v) circuit for the elec. dryer.
What can I expect? Live circuits, dead circuits? Overload conditions??
Elec. power around here (MO) seems to get less and less reliable by the month, else I wouldn't ask.
Thx, Puddin'
Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old ...
OK ...
Consider the notion that noone (including yourself) was in a position to -say- if it was 100% "legitimate" as re any relevant concern ...
You omit relevant info (breaker spec, specs on the "two wires"), but, in general, the little breakers are supposed to be co-specified for a single circuit. Circuits are something thatcha kinda sorta -design-.
Perhaps he noted that the breaker appeared to be jerry-rigged and decided he didn't wanna fool with such without a sizable premium. Blow some smoke re lube, and he's outa there.
I can tell you this. If your house were for sale, I stopped by, and noted, say, 12 15A romex cables going into the service panel and only 8 (or less) corresponding breakers, I'd likely pass your property by.
Cheers, Puddin'
Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old ...
That's not the same kind of back feed.
The back feed referenced is the potential for the leg that is "dead" due to a failed utility connection to become energized from the remaining live leg when a 240V appliance is switched on. The 240V appliance providing a connection between the two legs. The appliance will of course not operate since one of the hot legs it relies on is "dead", but it will provide a conduction path from the one that is live to the other presenting a hazard if you are carelessly working on that "dead" leg.
Back feeding your house from a generator through a breaker other than the main in the panel works perfectly fine. The situation you indicated with the dryer outlet is not legal due to the lack of a safety interlock to insure the main is indeed off when power is being back fed through the dryer outlet. The electrically identical scenario is legal when the main breaker and the dedicated back feed breaker are interlocked with an approved device to insure the main is off when the back feed breaker is on.
Pete C.
That depends where you connect, and which breakers are "on."
There's a good chance you'll energize the whole house unless you're careful, which might very well overload your generator.
What you suggest is _very_ dangerous. You should have a proper transfer box.
Well, that one got by po' me. Shoulda thought about it longer.
So, for the safety interlock, I'd need to replace or rewire the existing main breaker to a "safety interlock" box or somesuch?
When you say "not legal", you refer to common bldg. codes?
Thx, P
Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old ...
Suppose, in an emergency scenario, I pick a couple 15A circuits and switch all the other breakers off? Safe?
Thanks, P
Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old ...
If you do it properly, and your circuit breakers work properly, it is safe. If someone gets hurt while you are doing something illegal you are in very deep trouble. Since a transfer switch costs maybe $150 and takes a couple hours to install, it is not a risk I am willing to take.
Its sort of like driving without your seat belt on. It is safe (after all, how often do you have a collision?) but it is just not smart.
Perhaps it would seem so, but I'd personally opt for extension cords. There's too great a danger of somebody who is not fully aware of what's going on flipping a breaker. I'd hate to be the guy responsible for electrocuting a power company lineman working to restore power.
The failed connection is probably open, not shorted to ground. You would get nothing, not 120V.
I once considered doing that last thing (generator to dryer outlet), but changed my mind after reading here. One little mistake can have very serious consequences.
For a code approved (NEC and others) generator connection you need either an approved transfer switch or the more recent option of an approved interlock kit that is installed on your electrical panel.
One example of the interlock kits is one available for Square D panels which provides a mechanical interlock between the main breaker and a dedicated back feed breaker in the 2/4 position of the panel.
If you want an automatic generator system you will need an automatic transfer switch. For manual systems there are a number of options with the interlock kits being the most economical option in most cases.
National electrical code (NEC), other codes that reference it and similar codes.
Pete C.
If you have a panel for which an approved interlock kit is available such as Square D it's even cheaper, around $50 between the kit and a dedicated breaker for the back feed.
Pete C.
Jeez, whotta mess ...
That's a multi-occupant thingy. I shoulda stated there's noone here 'cept me and my Crazy Birddawg.
This would be possible given the main breaker in my house is switched off? No comprendere, senor.
Thx, Puddin'
Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old ...
I have a 21 yr-old Cutler-Hammer panel that I installed myself back around 1984.
No doubt there's numerous houses in which an interlock kit would make sense. But there's nobody here but po' me, and, to my knowledge, I don't need to idiot-proof the damned thang. Before any gas generator were connected, the main breaker -would- be switched off. And it would stay off until the gen. was removed.
True or False: With the main breaker off, all I have to worry about is the in-house circuitry (which I'm pretty familiar with).
Cheers, Puddin'
Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old ...
isnt pigtailing in the panel also a code violation? I thought you had to either put each home run or branch circuit on its on breaker OR have it made up in a J-box intead of taking to the panel and pigtailing
All it takes is a momentary lapse of attentiveness or (particularly since we're talking about emergency conditions) somebody new on the scene.
At any rate, I believe it violates code, is illegal, and is dangerous. I understand all that might not stop you doing it, but I would advise against it.
It's gotta be the Crazy Birddawg ('cause it couldn't be me). The Crazy Birddawg is gonna flip the switch ... :-)
Taken under advisement.
Thanks, P
Pease pudding hot, Pease pudding cold, Pease pudding in the pot Nine days old ...
Electrically, yes. In reality you have to worry about how certain you are that you will remember the main breaker while fumbling in the dark of the outage and what your sentence will be for negligent homicide.
Pete C.
Assuming the breaker really is off, then it is true.
But we all do stupid things. Forgetting to open the main breaker is not inconceivable. If you did forget, you would "probably" stall the generator as you tried to power the neighborhood; but you could also kill a lineman. You will not deserve any sympathy from the jury!
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.