In a normal pool, does anything *mix* the water to aid the filter?

I have one of those supposedly self-cleaning pools, which isn't cleaning all that well - so - I was just wondering how "normal" pools work before I turn off the cleaning system completely.

My basic question is "How does a normal pool mix up the water?", and, "How does a normal pool suck water from the skimmers?"

I'm guessing there is no mixing of water in a normal pool; and I'm guessing the skimmers suck water from the surface and from below the surface.

To explain why I ask these simple questions ... in my pool, there are about 15 pop-up heads that clean debris by mixing up the water, pushing the water and debris to the deep end of the pool, where a steep-sloped entrapment basin is used to funnel water & debris out via the one main drain at the deepest point in the pool.

These 15 PCC2000 pop-up heads all work off a single pump, where the flow of water is *not* filtered. The water goes from the two skimmers to the cleaner pump and back to the 15 pop-up heads via two Paramount water valves (in a setup called a 9-port system) on the pool deck.

The main pool (exclusive of spa) has one floor drain and two wall drains, one of which is at the deep end near the floor drain, and the other of which is below the skimmer in the shallow end.

Note: The spa has two drains on the floor, and a separate pump solely for the water jets. Plus it has some of the 15 pop-up heads.

The reason I ask the two questions is two-fold:

  1. I plan on turning off the (ineffective) cleaning system for a while.
  2. I don't understand the wall drain underneath one skimmer (i.e., I'm not sure if it's for the cleaning system, or if it's for the filtering system.)

If I turn off the (currently ineffective) cleaning system, then the pool water will still filter from the single main floor drain and from the two spa floor drains (and, I guess, from the two wall drains).

But, nothing will mix the water (and I'll have to vacuum debris, but, there isn't all that much debris in the summer anyway).

Hence my two (seemingly basic) questions: Q1: Do normal pools bother to *mix* the water for the filter? Q2: Do normal pools have a wall drain below one skimmer but not the other?

Reply to
Danny D.
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BTW, has you ever *rebuilt* your PCC2000 water valve innards?

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My 9-port system seem to be clean and working - but the pistons seem to be sticking - such that the water pressure is in the red zone (at about 8 psi for both water valves, steady).

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Also, does anyone know what this thing is supposed to do?

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Is it missing an internal part?

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Reply to
Danny D.

I don't know about all pools, but here the Polaris pool cleaner wanders around vacuuming up stuff on the bottom. Whatever it doesn't catch, dirt so fine it passes through the Polaris bag, etc, winds up kicked up in the water. It also has a tail with a foam scrub on it that moves around and while it's rubbing the pool surface, dirt gets kicked up. Once stirred up, it remains in the water for awhile, with some of it making it's way to one of the skimmers or the bottom drain.

No wall drains here, just two skimmers, one bottom drain.

Reply to
trader4

I'm surprised your system doesn't work. You might have other issues. Do you regularly check your chemicals?

I don't remember all the details of your pool but there are several factors. Filter medium being primary.

In answer to your question, the water in a regular pool mixes by:

Current, like in your pool

Swimmers

Brushing (ugh)

Robots (ie. Polaris)

I brush or run my Polaris every day. I can be a PITA really. The concept of your pool is a good one but I might question the execution. If it's otherwise working properly and, the chemicals are right, I'd question the filter medium.

Reply to
gonjah

I see. The pool cleaner stirs things up so that they can get to the main drain.

There must be a "safety" drain somewhere, isn't there?

Reply to
Danny D.

Hi Oren,

Oh no! I wish you had mentioned that a month ago ... as I *do* have a plugged-off vacuum line in the center of the pool:

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Apparently they put them in when they build the pool, but the pipe is plugged off where it comes up at the pump equipment:
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Too bad I hadn't thought of this when I was replumbing my filter pump, as I would liked to have worked in a hookup to the filter!

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PS: I'm new to Flickr, so, I'm not sure how to tell you to link to the larger pictures.

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Maybe these work?

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Reply to
Danny D.

Oh, you're right about that! The self-cleaning system is a maintenance nightmare.

For example, these water valves are not working right:

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I think the pistons are sticking:

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Plus, there is this "Flo-Control" thing that I don't understand:

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The labeling implies there is a valve under it, but there's nothing when I open the cap (maybe something is missing?):

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Chemicals are great. I keep the chlorine at about 10 ppm (yes, I know that's way higher than most of you - but I have to keep the algae down). The PH is always about 7.5, and the rest of the stuff I periodically check at the pool store and it is generally good (although phosphates are often on the high side).

I just cleaned the cartridge filters. My problem is debris, not clean water. There is no vacuum. So the cleaning system has to sweep all the debris to the main drain for it to pick it all up.

The skimmers take care of surface debris, but the skimmers are not filtered so anything not caught in the baskets is pushed back into the pool from the skimmers.

Hmmmmm.... Current -> mine sets up a current from the pop-up heads

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Swimmers -> mine is almost never swum in (unless we have visitors) Brushing -> ugh... I brush the walls of green algae every day Robots -> Hmmm... I have no robots (other than the pop-up heads)

After reading the following references, I'm now pretty sure that the whole system isn't working properly - and specifically - my water valves:

  1. Videos:
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  2. Especially this video:
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  3. PC2000 Manual:
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  4. Water Valve Manual:
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  5. Blog:
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  6. FAQ:
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  7. System Description:
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  8. Water Valve Description:
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Reply to
Danny D

Get the PH to 7.2 and phosphates to zero. Two no brainers. I think the chlorine is too high and if you want the chlorine to be more effective lower the PH.

Yeah... your system is beyond me. I'd much rather stick with the evil I know. You need to get the debris out. While you're figuring it out you could cut back any vegetation and get one of those skimming baskets designed to clean the bottom of the pool.

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I had one that worked better than my Polaris and cheaper to run too. I could clean the pool in about 8 minutes what it takes the Polaris an hour to clean. The only advantage is the Polaris stirs the water up better.

If you're brushing a large amount of algae every day off the walls it's probably your PH and phosphates, but get all of your chemicals right. You're growing too much algae. Keep brushing and cleaning too. It sucks but you gotta do it. If necessary, get one of those digital PH readers and buffer we were showing you. I've got one and it helps to check your PH often because every-time you add chemicals it has the potential to knock off your PH.

After you get you algae under control it will get easier.

Reply to
gonjah

Hmmm... I had not realized the chlorine will be more effective at a lower pH. It's easy to add muriatic acid, so, if that's the right approach, I'll gladly lower the pH.

It would also keep some of the calcium scale off the pool walls (which, I think, harbors the algae).

Reply to
Danny D.

Interesting that it only takes an hour to clean the debris with the Polaris vacuum.

My so-called "self-cleaning" system takes about 3 hours each day, and often I run it longer than that.

Reply to
Danny D

In some systems, if you don't backwash the filter often enough, the pressure builds up (at least with a Kreepy Krawley) doesn't work as well. Have you backwashed recently?

Reply to
Kurt Ullman

Be sure to eliminate the phosphates too.

PR-10000 is the cheapest phosphate remover. Around here it's only available online. The phosphate removers at the pool store here are way too expensive.

PR-10000 also works to assist sand filters. I don't know your medium but you might have to clean your filter after using a phosphate remover. Just keep an eye on your pressure.

Reply to
gonjah

Yeah...that's bs. The cost of running a pump for three hours! Forget it. Get the skimmer basket and get some exercise. I really don't even like running the Polaris but it's very effective at keeping the water stirred up.

No system is going to work if you're growing algae blooms though.

Reply to
gonjah

For a while, I was adding the blue copper algaecide (which I had bought for about $75 by the gallon) ... but then I read somewhere that chlorine alone should control algae.

The good thing about the blue copper algaecide is that it stained the white calcium deposits a very pretty blue! :)

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Reply to
Danny D.

Hmmm... how much is normal?

The pool is only about 80 degrees because I have the solar heater turned off (due to massive leaks) - and - each brush of the walls shoves a cloud of graygreen dust forward.

I'd say at most, one or two brush strokes is all it takes, and then you can't see the cloud anymore. This happens daily, on the deeper walls (not so much on the shallow walls).

Is that a lot or a little?

Reply to
Danny D

I've never had anyone recommend algaecide. I've consistently heard to lower your PH and then shock. If your PH is too high you're basically throwing money in the pool by adding more chlorine. Well....we're trowing money in the pool anyway, but, hopefully a little less. :)

PR10000 isn't cheap but a gallon will last a few years. The most I use in a dose is 1/2 cup in a 11k gallon pool. If the phosphates are registering zero then I don't use any, which is usually the case.

Reply to
gonjah

It's about $100 a gallon:

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So, I'm looking up *how* it works (maybe there is something cheaper?).

Reading the MSDS:

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It seems to be composed of magic: "Proprietary rare earth and compatible compounds - Patent Pending"

Hmmm.... something fishy about that but, moving on, I find that the phosphate removers only remove one form of phosphate, orthophosphate (inorganic phosphate) and not small organic phosphates that algae can still use (though more slowly).

Digging deeper, I find that if we maintain the free chlorine level at a minimum FC of at least 7.5% of the CYA level, the chlorine alone should kill the algae quicker than they can grow.

Since I'm only using a basic Chlorine:pH kit, I'll have to stop off at Leslies for a test of my water to see what the CYA level is currently.

The bad news is that algae can apparently store phosphates for weeks, so, starving them might not be the only way to get rid of them.

I'm reading s'more but this is getting long'ish ...

Mine is cloth filter.

PS: Up until about last year, I was using algaecide and not phosphate remover. The copper algaecide was a deep dark blue, which stained the pool ... so I stopped using it (it seems every chemical has a pro and a con).

Reply to
Danny D.

Out here, your last KWh is about 45 cents, so the cost skyrockets, especially as I often have to run it for three or four days straight (like after I had the pumps out of service for a week or two).

I think, based on this thread, I'm going to drop my cleaning system time down - but also I'll need to fix my cleaning system water valves.

In addition, I'm going to seriously contemplate connecting the existing vacuum plumbing to the filter pump - and - that way, at least, I can manually vacuum the debris with a pole.

Reply to
Danny D.

I'm no expert but I don't think you backwash the cartridge filters. But I did hose the filters down about a month ago so they're clean.

Reply to
Danny D.

If it's effecting the clarity of the pool. If not then you're fine. I don't think you're ever going to completely eliminate algae.

Reply to
gonjah

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