I posted here yesterday about a toilet in my house that has recently turned into a lazy flusher (upon flushing the water spins a bit, then stops and then the water level drops, but it's not flushing like it did even a week ago). Someone here suggested getting an auger and I did that. I was hopeful that it would be the solution I needed, but after auging and then plunging a bit more I am seeing no improvement. (There was a little paper floating around the bowl after I pulled the auger out.) I'm making a few calls now to rent a snake. I think I'd rather try to snake it than pulling the toilet as that sounds like a messy headache. One place I called said they had a 100 foot snake for $45 a day. He said they might have a smaller one around the shop somewhere. I hope they do as 100 feet is likely way too long.
Anyhow, any advice for a guy about to snake his toilet? I guess I can plan on having some scratch marks in the bottom of the toilet bowl.
The problem is probably still in your toilet. Renting 100' snake to clear something in the first 3-4 feet is not a good idea. The head of the snake will either be the same size as what you have on the auger, or will be too big to get through the trapway.
I have cleared at least 100 clogged toilets as a landlord. I have removed toys, spoons, the top of a water bottle, hair extensions, and countless other items. Perhaps one of the most unexpected things was a tampon applicator that got all the way to the bottom of the toilet (where the toilet meets the floor flange), and got stuck sideways across the bottom.
You can either continue with the auger or pull the toilet and see if you can tell what the problem is from the other end. Pulling the toilet is NOT a big deal. Get a #3 wax ring to use when you re-set the bowl.
I have had items that I couldn't get out of the toilet, and found out what they were after I replaced the toilet and busted the old one open to see what the problem was.
I was going to post yesterday and suggest that you get a better auger, from General or Rigid, that would have cost $40-50, but I thought the cheaper one would probably work for you. If you really want to got out and spend $45 towards fixing the problem, this would be my choice.
Ya see, that's why I love this newsgroup! Good advice from knowledgeable folks, and the price is right! Thanks, JK, I will aug some more after work today and then consider pulling the toilet. My father-in-law is arriving for an Easter visit tomorrow, so I will seek his assistance on this (he's not a plumber, but knows a good deal about home repairs).
I'm hardly the world's authority on pulling toilets but I was able to do one by myself after watching somebody else do one first. Not much to it... run the kids off, turn off the water supply, flush, disconnect from the water supply, loosen the two bolts that hold it to the floor, and then muscle it off the drain. Be prepared to deal with some water left in the bowl.
Scrape off the old wax ring and replace it with a new one. Slide the toilet back on the mounting bolts and sit down on the throne to seat it into the new wax ring. On and off shouldn't take more than half an hour for a newbie. Chances are the cause of your problem will present itself very shortly after you free the beast from the floor.
It might be a scary job the first time you do it but it won't be the second. It's just not that bad... it's the dreading that's bad.
I agree-- it isn't that much work to pull the toilet which is the most likely culprit. And if it isn't- snaking the drain sans toilet is infinitely easier.
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I'd go for the rubber one. $5 vs $2 , but easier to install- and the re-usability factor might come in handy if we're all correct in our assumption that one of the rugrats is sending things to the ocean via the sewers.
Jim [oh- and I'd pull it- then if necessary buy a snake. Handy critters to have in the garage on a Saturday night with a house full of company]
Jeff - the closet auger was a great suggestion. I can't believe I haven't needed one up to this point. You mentioned your 20 foot snake. I think I saw something like that at Home Depot yesterday when I was getting the auger (I wanted to examine it a bit further but one of the rugrats darted off into the Garden Department and I had to go). What I'm referring to kinda looked like a flexible metal cable inside a tea-pot. Is that about what you have? Maybe I'll go back this evening and pick up one of those. I'm bound to need it again at some point!
Sorry the closet auger I suggested didn't do the job.
If you do pull the toilet, go easy when tightening the hold down bolts when replacing it.
You don't want to crack the base or pull the hold down bolts through the pipe flange.
With no small kids in our house we don't have problems with undisolvable miscellany dropped into our toilets and jamming in the traps, and rarely have use for even a toilet plunger, though I do keep one in each bathroom.
However, a couple of months ago a good friend and his wife came to our home for coffee and desert after we'd all been out together. The guy is a giant of a man, tall and stout and he asked to use our guest bathroom prior to leaving for their 45 minute drive home. He came out with an embarrassed look on his face and asked me if he could use a plunger. I showed him where one of those plastic "accordian style" ones was hanging behind the doors which hide a clothes washer/dryer in that bathroom and he came out a while later, saying, "It's OK now."
After they left I took a leak in the same toilet and noticed it flushed extremely slowly. I brought up my closet auger and went to work on it. The head of the auger came out stuffed with s**te, and after augering for quite a while there was some improvement in the flushing, but it was still subpar.
I finally had to bring up my trusty and rusty 20 foot hand snake and spent another 10 minutes or so running it in and out until the toilet flushed as well as I'd remembered it used to.
That's why I commented about a metal snake run through the toilet scratching the bottom of the bowl. There are some grey scatches inside that toilet now which won't scrub off, even with a Brillo pad. They now remind me of my friend's giant turds every time I'm taking a leak and looking down there.
If that same friend ever asks to use our guest toilet again I'm gonna take him aside and ask if he'd please s**te in stages, flushing after each one.
Your mindset about snaking is leading you astray and wasting time. I would pull the toilet even just to snake the lines. In fact, I'd pull and re-install the toilet several times, before I'd bother with even going to the workshiop and looking for my snake. It's just not a big deal to pull the toilet, reach your hand in to find the matchbox car and be done with the whole stupid episode. I'll bet you still haven't even tried to reach in from above with your hand. Stop prcrastinating and tryiong to avoid the inevitable. With small kids, you are going to be doing this again at some point.
Someone in this newsgroup told me to try the advice posted when I had a problem similar to your. It worked beautifully, and no more slow running toilet. This is what he told me to do, which I did, using Muriatic Acid. I didn't wear safety glasses, but I did have the window open.
Have you tried snaking the vent? The vent is the pipe that comes off the top of your roof. It is used to displace the water that goes into the drain. The vent can be blocked by something as simple as rust buildup or even an unlucky rat.
Oh Salty, you somehow know me well. No, I haven't reached into the toilet with my hand yet. I admit to being reluctant to doing this. Yes, I know the water in the toilet bowl is clean (after a fresh flush anyway). I will try to work up the nerve to try it this even IF I don't have any luck with another auging session. Oh, by the way, when I was home for lunch my neighbor was out in his yard and I asked him if he had a snake I could borrow and he said he'd try to dig one up for me out of his basement/garage. I'd bet the ranch he has one, he's got at least one of EVERYTHING.
Thanks again everyone!
Mike
P.S. Cheri - if this doesn't work, I just might try your suggestion! Where did you buy Muriatic Acid anyway?
Matter of fact I did try that, after sucking the water out of the bowl with my shop vac. Scrubbing with Ajax using one of those kitchen sponges with a Scotchbrite" pad on one side just didn't do it.
They're not really terrible, but I can still see them.
Next time you stick the snake in the next toilet; try wrapping cloth around it, old T shirt, terry cloth pieces, just something to prevent marks in the bowl.
Does the toilet flush solids fine with a bucket of water? if so the interior water passages and bowl rim are likely the problem, its easily solved for under 10 bucks and 15 minutes, no removing the toilet necessary
Not meaning to be ignorant but so far all these experts have told you all the wrong thing ! 1 I f you can't get it out with a toilet auger then you need to lift the toilet . 2 don't waste your money on a big snake just a waste of time , Take the bowl up use a waxring not rubber as they dry out if you use toilet bowl cleaner . 3 Once the bowl is up run snake thru the reverse way don't ever use rag wrapped to the auger as if you get it caught in the bowl you have two plugs not one. 4 if still won't work get a pro or if the unit is older than 15 yrs get a new toilet. Iam a master plumber so you don't have to believe me if you want. And when you seat a ring don't seat on it right off just rock side to side and back to front slowly rocking when you have ot on the floor solid then seat slowly on it , if you seat on it right away you push wax over your pipe opening.
The water in the bowl is not clean, there is all sorts of nasties in there. This however is probably not going to be a problem unless you have open sores. Be sure to wash your hands afterwards.
Pull the toilet, carry it out to the lawn, turn it upside down and stuff the garden hose in from the bottom.
After you have cleared the blockage, use a mirror and check the little holes under the rim. Often these get gunked up and having the hose handy makes cleaning and flushing these hole out easy at this point. A chunk of coat hanger wire is handy also
While you have the toilet pulled, if you have any touch up paint left over you can now paint behind the toilet.
Also while you have the toilet out, it is a good time to change the gasket between the tank and the bowl, and clean really good in all the nooks and crannies. If you do not already have one, invest in a 1/4 turn ball valve for the supply and replace the supply line with the good stainless braided line. The price of these parts is a whole lot cheaper than fixing water damage in the future.
If the toilet has ever ran or the internals have ever given you grief, now is a good time to replace them. The FluidMaster fill valve is a reliable brand and a whole lot better than the ball on the rod floats. A good quality flush valve and you are done.
When reinstalling, once you have seated the bowl, and are sure their is no leaks, a small bead of caulk around the base may be a good idea, especially around the front and sides.
Start early in case you need to make multiple trips to the hardware store, or something goes wrong.
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