Hurricane-proof House

Page 9 of 11  
Since everybody for the most part overlooked the obvious........ I'd say it may stand, just nothing at home upstairs!

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On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:39:12 GMT, "HMFIC-1369" < snipped-for-privacy@VVet.comBaa Baa> wrote:>Since everybody for the most part overlooked the obvious........ I'd say it

Normal houses should be able to survive a direct hit Cat 2 hurricane (correct me if I am wrong). A direct hit from anything above that will cause damage however strong you build it. Once there is damage and the rainwater/floofwater gets in the inside contents that can absorb water are toast. And the stronger and heavier your building the more damage there will be to your house and to your neighbor's as the parts tear off in the high wind or flood surge. You also don't want to build a house so heavy that it looks like a prison and cost more than one. You'll never pass the guidelines for neighbourhood architectural conformity anyway.
So we can presume that your house will look be built like one of those antebellum houses that makes New Orleans so charming. It should also be a two storey house so that you will have a place of refuge in case of flooding
If I were to rebuild what I will do is to design a house that will have a concrete structural frame that will stand intact in a Cat 5 storm. Presumably the main panels and outlets for utility llines, water pipes and other services will be attached to or be protected by this concrete frame. This is so that while the service runs to the rest of the house can be destroyed one can easily re-establish new connections to the main panels and outlets.
Everything else of regular construction can tbe damaged, be blown or washed away but the frame stands. That way I can easily tear down the roof and walls and quickly rebuild without having to bulldoze the whole structure or having to resubmit the building approvals.
A refinement to this house design will be to make the first floor level a sacrificial part that a storm surge can wash away without bringing the second floor with it, or damaging the structure of the house. I saw some TV shots of a breachfront house in the Carolinas that survived such a surge. That left the house looking like it was built on stilits. The second floor was damaged and not worth salvaging. But had someone taken refuge there (none) that person would have survived. A conventionally build house would have been totalled and killed everyone within it.
One can understand the desire to stay in and sit out the storm, mainly to prevent looting, and perhaps to fix fixable damage on the fly before it becomes a big one. The chances of a direct hurricane hit are small enough for most homeowners to take this risk. The chances of a direct hit is nonetheless there and it will seem very stupid by then to risk life and limb for a house.
Therefore the problem should be recast as how can one stay for a less threatening storm and yet survive the perfect storm?
The answer will be a storm-proof safe room built on top of this concrete structure. It will probably be the size of a large bathroom and made of steel or concrete for protection against flying debris or tree falls. It should be capable of being buttoned down and float upright like a boat should it be dislodged. At that level of storm intensity there is no longer any consideration of living in it to guard your property. All you want is to survive the perfect storm and get the hell out, a stay of less than 48 hours.

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Disagreement: If you're going to this length, you should use a more reasonable figure for time-to-rescue of 7 days. 72 hours is the figure used for people who are trying to do the best they can with what's available. 72 hours is what you should keep in the trunk of your car.
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| | > | >The answer will be a storm-proof safe room built on top of this | >concrete structure. It will probably be the size of a large bathroom | >and made of steel or concrete for protection against flying debris or | >tree falls. It should be capable of being buttoned down and float | >upright like a boat should it be dislodged. At that level of storm | >intensity there is no longer any consideration of living in it to | >guard your property. All you want is to survive the perfect storm and | >get the hell out, a stay of less than 48 hours. | | Disagreement: If you're going to this length, you should use a more | reasonable figure for time-to-rescue of 7 days. 72 hours | is the figure used for people who are trying to do the best | they can with what's available. 72 hours is what you should | keep in the trunk of your car. | | |
Seems to me Noah planned for a longer stay. Also seems his structure was a bit bigger too.
<BG>
--
PDQ

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Seems to me Noah planned for a longer stay. Also seems his structure was a bit bigger too.
You were there?
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--
| | Seems to me Noah planned for a longer stay. | Also seems his structure was a bit bigger too. | | You were there? | |
There are days when I feel as if I were.
Mostly, I have to go by what I read.
--
PDQ

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well, here... read this: http://www.venganza.org /
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I think he read about it somewhere. I believe that story is in a book that's an anthology of sorts. ;)
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Bottom line is 30 days! Katrina shows areas still under flood waters, well after a week. The object is NOT rescue! I maintain 6 months food and water in my food cellar. This will allow me to ride out the worst and be able to relocate to safer area if need be and still maintain a solid homefront!

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"HMFIC-1369"> wrote

How much space does 6 months worth of food and water occupy?
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Don wrote:

More significantly, how does one prevent the flooding of the cellar or the complete destruction of the entire dwelling given a Cat 5 or Fujita 5 storm?
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"Duane Bozarth"> wrote

Here in SW FL, home of the 4 hellraisers of 04', everything below the 10' level (10' above sea level) is considered a lost cause. FEMA specifically addresses these items in the building codes.
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Don wrote:

Precisely my point...to do what HMFIC wants in general is a very difficult and expensive task. You can be prepared for ordinary events pretty well and make things a lot easier on yourself, but in a catastrophic situation things are likely to get out of hand for almost everybody in the affected area.
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"Duane Bozarth"> wrote

I design large scale custom homes on the barrier islands off the coast of SW Florida. These homes are inherently expensive for several reasons, not just because of the so called *personal greed* of the owners. I've heard that upwards of 60% of the residents of NOLA were at the poverty level or lower. The buildings that housed these people probably won't be rebuilt. I've also heard that most of those folks in that 60% have already been relocated, some have jobs and are moving on with their lives, probably aren't concerned with moving back to NOLA. So what's left? The infrastructure, businesses and residences.
Here, in the 130mph wind zone we address the issue 2 ways. Either the land under the structure must place the finished floor at 10.0' above sea level, which is what is done here on the mainland. Or the home has got to be elevated on driven of jetted pilings so the the finished floor is at least 10.0' above sea level. My own home, built 3 years ago on the mainland, required more than 60 truck loads of fill dirt to get the concrete slab up to the requirement, it also required an additional 15 loads to do the finish grading at the end. Each year the height requirement seems to increase, the new home across the street from me is at least 1-1/2' higher than mine. Its never ending around here. In 20 years the only thing that will be allowed to be built around here will be poured in place solid concrete domes anchored to the mantle itself with precast 80' pilings 4' on center both ways. ;-(
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Don wrote:

Yes, when one attempts to do something inherently fool^h^h^h^hrisky, one should at least make the effort to protect the investment. It's still an area not really suitable for the use.

Those that were flooded, probably not, although what is going to be done is pretty well still in the future...

Relocated, yes. Permanent location, job? I suspect that would probably be <<1%, so far.

Some is, a of lot that isn't even left or worth the cost of rebuilding, either. They're talking of trashing the Superdome, even, which was a pretty substantial structure and investment.

130 mph is strong, but certainly far below the full-force 200+ mph plus storm surge of a head-on coastal barrage. 130 mph is "designable" for survival at a cost that isn't <totally> prohibitive. As you're well aware, that cost will escalate rapidly as the design criteria rise.
....

Guaranteeing, after the rest are elevated that the low spots will then be flooded.

As it should be if in such a location. It simply isn't a very good choice of location for building permanent structures. I've thought what folks who want to live in such places should do would be to simply build disposable houses and when the big one comes leave, planning from the beginning to simply bulldoze and start again. Be cheaper, structurally, albeit less convenient.
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Interesting angle. You'd get to change the design every so many years. I like the concept. Let the old one blow away. I guess it's all in how one looks at things, eh?
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The food is expensive? Look if need be I can pack a canoe or the Kayaks and head where ever!
Don't over estimate the fear factor, in a catastrophic event, you already beat the system if you live. Then you have to address what and where. I'm located in a pretty good valley that protects is from all directions because of how it follows the river. I could flood but that would have to be enough to flood the whole valley and since it's most narrow miles north the flood plains will handle it there. and honestly if anything does flood the food and gear are all sealed.
I wouldn't build a house to take a Cat 5, I'd let it go and move!!!

waters,
and
Fujita
10'
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"HMFIC-1369"> wrote

Pretty strong words considering there's only been 1 direct cat 5 in the 40 years I lived here.
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FEMA sets building codes?
Mike
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Michael Daly wrote:

No, not specifically. They have made some efforts particularly since the spate of FL hurricanes to address design issues regarding roofs, etc., for enhancing survivability. The results I've seen haven't been uniformly successful attempts as, for one example, the guidelines for upgrading asbestos shingle roofs apparently were developed and published internally or w/ consulting input but not using any input from any of the manufacturers, etc. Consequently, there are published guidelines for which there are no commercially available materials to meet.
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