How to kill those "Klunkers"

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Jon Danniken wrote:

A letter in our local paper suggests that even-older gas-guzzlers should be able to be traded in -- with some kind of bonus -- on these not-quite-so-horrible "Clunkers."
Perce
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if (("Reduce, re-use, recycle") != ("Destroy a perfectly useable vehicle"))     {     call ("crinkle_nose");     return ("I don't get it.");     }
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On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 17:11:48 +0000 (UTC), ShadowTek

<LOL>
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You might think it's funny but when I think of where these funds are coming from it makes me sick. I'm sure our president will spin this waste of money into an economic stimulus.
Gordon Shumway
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On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:52:26 -0500, Gordon Shumway

I laughed at the "code". I agree about waste of money, etc.
This worries me, even more.
Video: 0 - 4:25
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2-FEWlj4BQ

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wrote:

Unless the vehicles are DESTROYED, there is nothing the government can do to prevent less scrupulous dealers and other shady profiteers from double-dipping by collecting the CARS rebate, then turning around and selling the trade-in clunker for Kelly Blue Book price. Heck from some accounts, vehicles from the CARS program are showing up on auction lots, running and driving under their own power already. Anything but the total destruction of the tradeins leaves that loophole.
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On Aug 4, 2:03pm, snipped-for-privacy@rochester.rr.com wrote:

re: "Heck from some accounts, vehicles from the CARS program are showing up on auction lots, running and driving under their own power already"
Cite please.
re: "Unless the vehicles are DESTROYED..."
The program requires that the engine be destroyed and the vehicle labled attesting that fact. If the dealers are getting around that requirement, then what will stop them from getting around the requirement that the entire vehicle be destroyed?
But really, please provide a cite for the "some accounts" you mentioned.
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On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 11:25:15 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

Dunno.
"Federal inspectors will review dealer records and vehicles for violators of the rules, who would face a $15,000 fine per infraction."
http://politisite.wordpress.com/2009/07/24/cash-for-clunkers-dealers-must-destroy-engines-to-prevent-fraud /
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Cite what? I read it on a forum site in a thread with more ignorant whining about the whole CARS program. It was one of those "I heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy" situations.
I dunno if the claim is legitimate. That's why I said, "by some accounts." You can't deny that it is plausible. I have no doubts that it is actually happening somewhere. Remember you can tell that a car dealer is lying, because his lips are moving. What's stopping them from trying to double-dip?

At this stage of the game, I have no doubts that some dealers are TRYING to get around the requirement. Whether they manage to get away with it will remain to be seen. All we can do is watch the news for the headlines, "Auto Dealer Fined for Double-Dipping on CARS Program."
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On Aug 4, 3:21pm, snipped-for-privacy@rochester.rr.com wrote:

re: "I dunno if the claim is legitimate. That's why I said, "by some accounts.""
So you are using a rumor that you read in a thread similar to this one to bolster your argument that dealers are double-dipping?
If I made a claim and followed it up with "I heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy", would you put a lot of faith in what I said? I doubt it...yet you are willing to use something you read in a forum, something you admit you can't verify, as part of your argument that they have to change the requirements of the program.
re: "You can't deny that it is plausible."
I won't argue that your claim of double-dipping is plausible, but when you toss in rumors and unsubstantiated information, your argument loses credibility.
re: "Remember you can tell that a car dealer is lying, because his lips are moving"
Old jokes and derogatory generalizations don't help either.
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DerbyDad03 wrote:

No cite, but it's obvious you only need the VIN and motor from an identical, totaled, vehicle and you're good to go.
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True, but that really has nothing to do with the double-dipping argument, in the strictest of terms. You could always take parts from one car and put them in another.
The engine from the totaled vehicle was always available for use in a car with a decent chassis. It wasn't traded in under the program and therefore is still available for use. The program doesn't require all existing engines to be destroyed and it doesn't state that you have to destroy the entire "clunker". In fact, the program, as I understand it, allows recycling yeards 180 days to remove usable parts after the clucnker's engine is rendered inoperable.
I won't claim to have read the entire 163 page document detailing the program, but if the rest of the clunker vehicle was usable, and the engine from the totaled vehicle did not come from an official clunker, then the combination of these 2 objects sounds perfectly legal.
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Thus far I have seen nothing that says the entire vehicle must be destroyed. Only the engine has been mentioned. I have been wondering what would keep someone from buying the "hulk" after engine destruction and putting a new motor in it.
Harry K
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harry k wrote:

The "clunker's" VIN is recorded as junked. The car cannot be registered.
BUT if you have a corresponding model, you can transfer the engine and VIN tag to the cluncker and you're good to go. Probably. For a while, anyway.
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On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 20:30:57 -0700 (PDT), harry k

Well, generally speaking, the cars traded in are probably worth less than the $4500 bonus. That's why it was so attractive to trade them in. The vast majority of the clunkers are not WORTH installing a new engine. Prices for big gas guzzlers are extremely depressed already.
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Agreed. This is the biggest waste of money and equipment the gubmint has come up with yet.
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h wrote:

It's redistribution.
If the program ends up being $3 billion, that's roughly $10 from each citizen. If all the participants get the $4500 discount/credit, that's 666,000 people that will directly benefit. Or 99.8% of the population will pay to benefit 0.02%.
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wrote:

Don't forget all those foreign auto workers.
At least I bought an American car ... well north american anyway. 40% US 35% Canadian and the rest from Mexico.
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On 08/05/09 11:06 am, HeyBub wrote:

You are not counting the benefit to the automobile industry and its employees who will continue to have jobs.
Perce
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Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

And that's a good thing exactly how?
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