How much a clothes dryer cost to use? Again ......

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They are. But I don't think Trader is really curious, as much as he just wants to catch me in a lie, like SaltyAss, Ricodjour, Shitty Two, and their ilk.
Again, for the slow, my near-30c rate is not an explicit, published rate -- the published rate is 9c. But the *real* rate I wind up paying, when I divide the $$ that I mail in by the kWhr that I got, is near 30c.
It's good to hear that not everyone is f'd ita like this. But CA, NY, and a bunch of others are. I suspect everyone's turn will come, tho. After all, what corp. concern can resist the easy fleecing of millions of sheeple? What CongressShill has the balls to fight it? If balls is even an issue -- corruption is the issue.
Free Money, Free Money!!!
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EA





>
> Jim
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wrote:

It's OK. Help is on the way. Last night I heard Obama say he wants more nuclear power plants built. Oh, wait a minute. His actual words were "a new generation of safe, clean nuclear power plants." Doh! Looks like you're still f**d, because we know there will never be one that's clean enough or safe enough for him or the environmental extremists. That's change you can believe in.
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote: ...

Well, we're going to know pretty soon. There are 20-something [1] applications for new licenses on file w/ NRC currently. When the formal hearings begin we'll find out where the C sequestration people are in terms of whether want to accomplish something or simply be obstructionists.
[1] www.nrc.gov has links to actual filings/numbers; I haven't looked at precise numbers for a while
--
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net writes:

At best all of the above perhaps explains why we pay more for the generation portion of our electric bill (12.4 cents/kWh). And I understand why burning natural gas or oil which is supposedly the main fuel here in New England would be more expensive than coal burnt in the Midwest and certainly more expensive than Hydro from the Pacific NorthWest.
However, why do we pay 7.6 cents/kWh for transmission which is *more* than the total cost of 6-7 cents that other users here claim to be paying.
If anything in a regulated monopoly, our transmission costs should be *lower* than other parts of the country since our lines were built a long time ago and presumably have already recouped their cost of capital. Also, with low population growth here, there is not a requirement for huge new investments in expansion.
I think the real problem here is government regulation and corruption which accomplishes the threefold evil of keeping prices artificially high and discouraging competition, and preventing investment in new technologies or cheaper sources of power...
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blueman wrote:

You pay more for transmission in the frozen northeast because:
1. The heavily forested states cost a lot more for tree trimming around the power lines.
2. The ice storms and falling branches cost a lot more to repair the power lines.

Old decrepit infrastructure costs more to repair and maintain, as well as costing more for rebuilding as sections become overloaded or otherwise unserviceable. Look at how often you see crews replacing mile of poles and stringing new lines, often with taller poles and double circuits to meet the increasing power demands.

Government regulation is certainly part of the problem, but it is typically keeping prices artificially low and discouraging system upgrades. Look at how CA got into their power mess with their mock "deregulation", where they deregulated the wholesale end but kept the retail end regulated and capped and caused companies pull back rather than absorb losses so the politicians could buy votes.
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writes:

==================================================== Enron. Except I don't think the retail end WAS regulated -- effing consumers were clobbered, iiuc, and NOW they are STILL paying 30c+ , in a tier system that very quickly reaches that 30c rate, or more.
Heh, and you heard that the supremes struck down limitations on corporate campaign contributions? You think it was bad then, or now.... you ain't seen nuthin yet. Orwell Lives.
--
EA



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Existential Angst wrote:

No, the CA scam was indeed to deregulate the wholesale end while still keeping the retail end regulated and rate capped. When the wholesale power market prices exceeded the capped retail price, CAs mock "deregulation" scam unraveled since the utilities were not about to sell the power at retail for less than they had to pay for it wholesale. The exact reasons for the wholesale price increase aren't really relevant since it was only a matter of time until CAs house of cards collapsed.
CA is in a similar situation with their welfare state. The high CA taxes, combined with overall economy issues has hastened the exodus of productive working taxpayers from CA, leaving fewer and fewer productive workers to pay the high taxes to support the welfare state for all the non productive workers. The same economy issues have also led to the loss of a lot of low end jobs, meaning more on CAs welfare rolls. Some of those low end workers are leaving CA, but most don't have that mobility, so they remain a drain on CAs remaining taxpayers.
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I live in Eastern MA - I wouldn't say we were heavily forrested. Certainly much less forrested than Pacific Northwest where the total power cost is less than 7 cents/kwh.

Much less ice than Quebec where total cost is also less than our transmission costs.

The big cost is in installing new high tension lines. Replacing the occassional pole or transformer pales in comparison. And we are not doing much of either around here. You rarely see power crews out doing much of anything.

Not true here in Northeast. Environmental regulation and political hacks keep costs high. For example, we have dumb laws requiring at least one official policeman directing traffic at every single roadside job site.
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blueman wrote:

I lived in CT for 34 years and still have property there. I spent plenty of time with my chain saw cleaning up after the various ice storms over the years. Eastern MA may be less forested than western MA, but it still gets hit with ice storms which tear down lines.

Their power is damned near free from Hydro-Quebec. Comparing rate structures in other countries also tends to be deceptive based on how things are structured.

Building new transmission lines to support growing demand is a huge expense as is building generation facilities to provide the power.
I think you may not be paying attention to what is being done, since in my 34 years in CT I saw hundreds of miles of complete street level distribution replacement. In most cases it was old single circuit runs being replaced with new taller poles and double circuits in heavier gauge was well, probably ~4X the previous capacity on the primaries. I also so the secondaries replaced with much heavier ones and the transformer count roughly doubled.

Yep, those are some of the biggest costs. Here in TX we have far less headaches with that nonsense and better rates as a result. We also have a hefty percentage of the countries wind generation here.
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Strange that nobody considered the COST of the machine. Suppose you buy a dryer for $500 which includes installation costs and it lasts 15 years. During its lifetime, it dried 2000 loads of clothes, making the average cost of the load (based on the washer's initial cost) 500/2000 = 25 cents a load. You have to add the depreciated cost to the energy consumed, unless you got a free dryer.
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Phisherman wrote:

I got a free dryer...
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Pete C. wrote:

I was gonna say that. A lot of people get a new matching set of washer and dryer even though the dryer still works fine. There are always free or cheap dryers available.
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Tony wrote:

They are also fairly common I think as housewarming gifts from parents.
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wrote:

I don't understand the need to have matching washer and dryer. These appliances are typically hidden behind doors, garage, or utility/laundry room. A "matching set" does nothing else than increase appliance dealer profit. I can't recall ever having a "matching set," let alone the same brand.
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Phisherman wrote:

I have a very nice "stack" unit, so it inherently matches. I find the stack design is much more space efficient than the separate units.
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Phisherman wrote:

It's a strange world out there!
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Totally agree. We are are 'on' our second dryer (which 'cost' a dozen beer) in 40+ years. Our second, second hand washer (repaired with the drum/tub from another some five/six years ago) must be 20+ years old now. The cooking stove; can't remember but IIRC it's the third 'free' one we have had. The used dishwasher was a simple fix, one component! Hated to throw out the old one, which still worked but this one does wash better and IS quieter. Neighbour is planning to change out her microwave; I'll be tempted, although we have a couple of spares around now. Thre is a plenitude of free and cheap appliances and other items! Sometimes needing the occasional repair but most of them are pretty simple devices. And stick to white. PS. Haven't had to 'accept' yet any of those stoves with digital display oven timers/thermostats .............. so keeping a couple of the older style thermostats around just in case! haven't 'bought' an appliance for the last 20 years or so. One of thesed days probably be faced with multiple replacements!
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terry wrote:

OK, here's a good mystery. My stove/oven has a digital clock with a digital timer. The timer justs beeps, it can't be set to turn off the oven. Anyway here is the really weird part. The digital clock TICKS! Sixty ticks/minute! One of these days I'm going to have to open it up just to see it. It is LED display and I certainly don't think it has a mechanical timer running a digital display, so I'm guessing they put a tiny pizo or speaker hooked up to a "tick" circuit. Maybe some old timers didn't like it if they couldn't hear it tick? I've shown it to a few people and they started looking around for where I hid the wind up ticking timer. :-) No. No wind up ticker, a digital ticker.
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re: "The digital clock TICKS!"
I often run the clock/scoreboard controller for the basketball games at our schools.
It too has a LCD display yet you can hear it ticking inside the unit.
On top of that, when it drops below one minute and the 10ths of the seconds show up, the ticking increasing 10 fold!
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Jules wrote:

About a quarter is what I calculated a few years ago. My time to hang and remove clothes from a clothes line is worth more than a quarter, I'll stick with the dryer. The re-wash after the occasional bird crap incident or being blown off the line in a wind gust also negates any cost savings.
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