How long does it take a truck to stop & is it criminal if he doesn't?

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On 7/12/14 11:39 AM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

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On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 06:36:30 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Likely both rather regional in use. In brittish slang "pisscutter" denotes "not up to much"
From urbandictionary.com: "puddle jumper
A small airplane or land vehicle (car, truck) that appears to be wholly inadequate for the task of transporting passengers, or even the driver for that matter.
Mike: You drove all the way from Minnesota in this puddle jumper? You're braver than I thought."
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12:55 snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca:
Thanks! Guess I'm an oldtimer - never hear the term used in reference to
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12:55 PM snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote: "On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 06:36:30 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Likely both rather regional in use. In brittish slang "pisscutter"
Thanks! Guess I'm really an oldtimer. I never heard puddle jumper used in reference to anything without wings. LOL
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

To me PT cruiser seems to be a pisscutter!
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Tony Hwang wrote, on Sat, 12 Jul 2014 11:28:05 -0600:

At that time in the morning (8am on a Thursday), I doubt anyone was speeding, simply because it's a two-lane road (each side) which is windy and steep (6% grade, for about 3 or 4 very curvy miles). http://www.mercurynews.com/central-coast/ci_26131299/santa-cruz-man-identified-victim-fatal-highway-17
The trucker was on the last of those five curvy miles, where cars in front on a curve (threre are no straight sections of this road) apparently were stopped (usually that's due to someone in the left lane trying to get over to the right lane for the next exit, but in traffic, they have to go SLOWER than the right lane in order to cut into the right lane - but I don't know why the cars were stopped).
Whether or not he checked the brakes isn't yet in the newspaper record as far as I can tell.
Here's the latest on that from the CHP: http://cupertino.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/santa-cruz-man-killed-in-tragic-multivehicle-crash-on-hwy-17-identified45815
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Ann Marie Brest posted for all of us...
And I know how to SNIP

I am not an accident re constructionist so I don't know. It depends on too many factors to determine here.

It is a crime scene. Somebody died! Every accident can be considered a crime; even with no fatalities.

Quoted is a nebulous term. This is how crashes happen, human failure, negligence.

Read replies above.
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On 7/12/14 2:56 PM, Tekkie® wrote:

Potential crime scene, perhaps.

Not every action that results in somebody's death is a crime.

Only by an ignoramus.
<snip/>
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Tony Hwang wrote, on Sat, 12 Jul 2014 12:05:20 -0600:

I've seen runaway lanes on interstates, but this highway is so curvy I suspect there is not a single straight section in the entire length of the downhill this trucker was traveling (northbound, Highway 17, at Bear Creek Road).
http://www.mercurynews.com/central-coast/ci_26131299/santa-cruz-man-identified-victim-fatal-highway-17
This article says the grade is 6%, so I don't know how steep that is but I know the road is very curvy and only two lanes, with a Jersey barrier in the middle most of the way.
It's 6% for about 3 or 4 miles, so, the trucker would have tested his brakes 3 or 4 miles prior anyway.
He is quoted in that article as saying: "It wasn't decreasing speed. It kept going up 'cause it was, like, too steep for me," Rabinderbal Singh told KTVU. The truck's brakes were ineffective and only emitted smoke, he said. Though he has just under three months' experience driving such a vehicle, Singh told the station he followed his training and swerved into the guardrail to try to stop the descending rig."
As for safety checks (whatever that includes), the article says: "Surinderpal Singh, the owner of SBT Trucking -- which consists only of the truck, himself and the driver (to whom he is not related) -- told KTVU a safety check was conducted on the truck the morning of the crash, and that it was inspected by the CHP two weeks ago."
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On 7/12/14, 3:57 PM, Jesse Davis wrote:

made headlines across the nation in 1903. Steep grade, 3 miles, tight curves. The company said he was speeding. Witnesses disagreed.
The company had changed to Westinghouse brakes for safety, but nobody told Broady the fatal difference: they wouldn't recharge unless he let them off completely. He set them for a smooth, safe descent and lost his air before he got to the bottom. If he'd known, he could have gotten his brakes back by letting them up for a few seconds.
It used to be that if a grade was too long and steep for a truck's brakes, the engine could be used to retard the speed. Is that still true for all trucks?
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On 7/12/2014 5:42 PM, J Burns wrote:

Not all, but many have the engine brake.
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deadrat posted for all of us...
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He was: failure to control vehicle and failure to yield to a stopped vehicle. CA law may vary.
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On 7/12/14 3:01 PM, Tekkie® wrote:

Good for you, Sparky.

Failure to control a vehicle isn't necessarily negligence. It might not even be culpable.
> and failure to yield to a stopped vehicle.
Failure to yield to a stopped vehicle might only be an infraction of the vehicular code.
> CA law may vary.
It certainly varies from your conception of it.
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Evan Platt posted for all of us...
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This topic is really going! I'll actually have to read the posts, getting interesting.
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Tony Hwang wrote, on Sat, 12 Jul 2014 11:29:23 -0600:

Paste this into maps.google.com to see where the accident was: 37.187120, -121.991077
The highway is the main corridor between the quaint 60's town of Santa Cruz California and the bustling tech mecca of San Jose, and the papers all said it carries 54,000 vehicles a day (so presumably that's roughly around 25K commuters a day).
It's curvy. There isn't a single straight section that I know of in the 3 or 4 miles down the hill from about 3,000 feet to about sea level in San Jose except just after where the truck crashed (so it never got to the straight section).
It's only two lanes on each side, separated by a Jersey barrier.
I'm told (but do not know for a fact) that the townsfolk in Santa Cruz don't want a "real" interstate to connect the two towns because then they'll just be a suburb of San Jose, and we already have a half dozen of those which turn into your classic crappy suburbia.
So, Santa Cruz, I'm told, doesn't want the highway modernized because they want to keep their small beach town flavor.
I don't know how true that is, but the point is that there are no runaway lanes on this road, and, I suspect there's no straight place to put them.
The truck crashed almost exactly on the San Andreas fault line, which is where the only straight section is (as the road crosses from one continent to the other, there is a flat valley floor of crushed rock, which is just after where the truck crashed).
The fault line is about 1/2 mile wide, and that's the only straight part of the road, but the truck never made it to there, but stopped a few hundred yards short of that straight away.
Point is, there certainly are no runaway lanes, but, I don't think there is any room for them either.
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trader_4 wrote, on Sat, 12 Jul 2014 05:38:06 -0700:

This article says everyone saw smoke coming from the truck's brakes. What does that tell us about what was happening with respect to friction? http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/santa-cruz-man-killed-massive-hwy-17-crash-identif/ngdXD/
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Jesse Davis wrote:

Smoke from brakes means the brakes are failing, the brake material starts to heat up which causes gases from the binder materials to come to the surface, Those build up between the shoes and drums and act like lubricant. The friction starts to drop BUT the friction is still enough to cause heat that can ignite the grease and rubber components in the brake system.
Just like holding the brakes in a car. Both cause brake fade.
The problem then becomes, can you let off the brakes and let them cool, as well as did the shoes get hot enough that it glazed the shoes and drums. If that happens you lose a LOT of braking ability.
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Jesse Davis wrote, on Sat, 12 Jul 2014 19:57:21 +0000:

The accident happened here (paste this into Google maps): 37.186652, -121.991102
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 07:31:11 -0400, "Sherlock.Homes"

Brilliant! You may have all my internets for that!
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On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 09:03:59 +0000 (UTC), Jesse Davis

In this particular situation, with the smoking brakes, the problem was the overheated brakes. He didn't even have enough braking power to overcome the 6% downgrade. You could say in the simplest terms that he would only need 0.06 coefficient of friction and didn't even have that so his speed was increasing instead of decreasing.
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