How long does it take a truck to stop & is it criminal if he doesn't?

What distance does a sand truck take to slow down on a 6% grade? If it can't stop in that distance, is it criminal?

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This accident yesterday blocked the highway for 10 hours, with the CHP saying it was a crime scene where one person died.

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The driver is quoted in that article as saying he had too much speed with too much weight with too little distance.

How long does it take a truck to stop & is it criminal if it doesn't stop in that distance?

Reply to
Ann Marie Brest
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It was criminal in this case where the owner allowed a defective truck to be operated over a steep grade.

articles.courant.com/2013-06-12/news/hc-avon-mountain-wilcox-release-0612-20130611_1_barbara-bongiovanni-dump-truck-abdulraheem-naafi

The driver in the CA crash should probably not been driving a double-bottom yet, due to inexperience.

"Singh's two trailers were fully loaded with dirt.

He said he has been a truck driver for not quite three months,"

Reply to
Retired

d = V^2/(2*g*(f + G))

Where: d = Braking Distance (ft) g = Acceleration due to gravity (32.2 ft/sec2) G = Roadway grade as a percentage V = Initial vehicle speed (ft/sec) f = Coefficient of friction between the tires and the roadway

So if the truck were going 55mph, that would be about 80 feet per second.

The coefficient of friction for treaded tires is about .7 on dry roads.

d = (80*80)/(2*32*(.7+.06))

or about 132 feet (from the time the driver hits the brakes). Assuming a lot of things, like the brakes don't burn out.

Of course not. The driver must have been doing something recklessly negligent before it's criminal.

Reply to
deadrat

No way to tell how long it would take without much better data. Weight of the trailers, how many axles, condition of the pavement, condition of the vehicle, speed, angle of momentum (straight travel, curved) angle of the roadway and much more.

Even then you would come up with the best possible braking distance assuming nothing interfered.

The figure most drivers are told is that a fully loaded twin screw tractor trailer (80,000 pounds) with one two axle trailer, on level dry pavement at 55 mph takes approximately 100 yards (one football field) to stop under ideal conditions.

From the video and the articles it looks like he came around a slight curve downhill and cars were slowing/stopping in front of him. It looks like he had a single screw tractor and pulling two trailers. Couldn't tell how many axles total. It looks like he got on the brakes as soon as he could, then the trailers started to jackknife and slide down the pavement. Once that happens the driver has no control over the outcome. It strictly becomes a physics question then.

The drivers quotes will likely come back to haunt him because there will be people looking to sue or like you assign the blame solely to the driver.

What was basically said was he had too much speed for the weight he was carrying to stop in the distance that was left when he saw the cars slowing/stopped.

However they are the same things you would say if you came around a curve and found a deer standing in the road. "It was too close and I couldn't slow down enough to avoid hitting it"

The police will investigate and probably agree with the drivers statement. BUT it will then be up to them to determine if the driver actually is at fault.

Reply to
Steve W.

Where is vehicle weight or number of tires/brakes taken into consideration ?

Reply to
Retired

Ann Marie:

Stopping distance is a function of many variables, so there isn't going to be a simple answer to your question. It depends primarily on how fast the truck was going when the driver applied the brakes, how hard he stepped on the brake pedal, how much the weight of the sand added to the momentum the truck, and so on.

But, any driver is obligated to provide sufficient distance between his car and the car ahead of him so that he can stop in time to avoid an accident. If the car in front slams on his breaks to avoid hitting a dog that runs out on the road, the driver behind has provide enough room between him and the car in front to prevent to stop before hitting that car.

I believe an analagous argument could be made for the truck in your case. The driver of the truck has to limit his speed so as to be able to stop at stop signs, red lights or traffic hazards even if there's a steep grade in the road.

If the truck can't stop on a steep grade so as to avoid hitting another car, then you can at least call it careless driving. But, if the reason for the trucks inability to stop is because he was going too fast to begin with, then that's negligence. And, if the truck was going too fast to begin with because the driver was drunk, then now we have a criminal case. If anyone was hurt because of the drunken driver's inability to stop the truck, then you should be talking to a lawyer right now.

Reply to
nestork

and if some nitwit in a puddle jumper pulled in front of the truck which was previously keeping a safe distance to the traffic in front of him, all bets are off.

Reply to
Pico Rico

You ask, is it criminal? Of course it is. The driver will most likely be charged with manslaughter of some degree. He can forget about driving trucks now.

You ask, how long does it take to stop a truck? Too many factors to say for that situation. From a personal experience, hauling a single trailer, I was going down a similar hill on an interstate. At the bottom, the road turns left. I noticed the traffic had stooped and hit the brakes. I stopped within inches of the rear car. That was well over 500 feet easily.

The driver said he knew what to do and turned his rig right and aimed for the guard rail. Actually, that's a bad move, for long arm doubles. As that sets up one hell of a whip lash reaction.

For those who may not know, the driver's inexperience shows. Knowing there is a long steep grade, the first thing you do is back off the pedal and begin down shifting. There is one hill on an interstate where I will go down in a lower gear. About midway, I will stop and park it for a few minutes.

On I-17 in Arizona, I will go through the mountains at 45mph downhill.

Reply to
richard

I believe that formula is for a car. Probably developed by some engineer who never had a driver's licemse or drove a car.

Reply to
richard

It isn't as it's immaterial. Two identical trucks, with the same tires, driving the same speed, traveling on the same pavement will stop in the same distance regardless of one being filled with concrete and the other empty.

Reply to
Unquestionably Confused

Says who? I have two identical trucks, but one weighs twice as much because it contains concrete. It's kinetic energy is twice that of the empty truck. If what you claim is true, explain the conservation of energy.

Reply to
trader_4

You can have a criminal case without the driver being drunk. It's largely at the discretion of the prosecutor. For example, just a few weeks ago, comedian Tracy Morgan was seriously injured in a crash on the turnpike here, with another occupant killed. Traffic had slowed for construction and a truck driver apparently fell asleep and did not stop, hitting their shuttle van from behind.

Another case was in the news related to all the GM cars that had been recalled. Some woman in I think TX has been in jail for years, convicted of killing her friend who was a passenger, by driving off the road into a tree. She hadn't been drinking, no drugs, etc. Now they found out that the car was one of the GMs recalled for the steering wheel defect.

A lot of this just depends on the prosecutor and your luck.

Reply to
trader_4

and my own personal experience. DUH!

Reply to
Pico Rico

You know nothing about real life. "Top Gear" did a demo of this. With just the driver, the car stopped as predicted. Add 3 passengers who all weighed over 300 pounds, it took another 100 feet to stop.

Having been a professional truck driver, it takes much longer to stop a loaded tuck. At 70mph and fully loaded, even longer.

Reply to
richard

I was told 2 to 3 times that.

Reply to
richard

[snip]

My error. My comment applies to a "slide to stop" situation where the wheels lock up. When a vehicle slides to a stop under the conditions cited above, the weight is irrelevant.

Source? Google J. Stannard Baker, Professional Engineer, founder of what was known as The Traffic Institute at Northwestern University. He's basically the "father" of crash investigation.

As I recall, the downward force created by the weight of the vehicle balances out the lighter weight of the second vehicle by increasing the effectiveness (for want of a better word) of the coefficient of friction. That's why you don't see the weight listed in that particular formula.

Lotsa strange stuff happens when wheels lock up. Loss of control, cars wind up bass ackwards.

Find yourself a vacant level, parking lot with a bit of rain to liven things up. Drive in a straight line at 25 -30 m/h and without touching the brake pedal, pull up hard on the parking brake (locking the rear wheels) and tell us what you see. Hint: You'll find yourself looking at where you've been rather than where you are headed

Reply to
Unquestionably Confused

Oh that's funny.

You asked what the skirting on the side of trucks was for.

I answered after a 10 second google search.

You claimed it was illegal to carry a firearm in a commercial vehicle. I proved otherwise.

Maybe you drove trucks, but it's obvious you were fired for incompetence.

Reply to
Evan Platt

The vehicle weight (actually its mass) makes no difference as Galileo showed when he dropped a Mack truck and a VW beetle from the Leaning Tower of Pisa.

Reply to
deadrat

I can't say how long it takes to stop without knowing the weight of the truck, what kind of brakes, what pavement condition, etc. However, if the driver, by operating an overloaded vehicle at too high a speed with inadequate brakes, and following too closely to allow a safe stopping distance can be considered to be driving carelessly - which can easily be argued, it IS a criminal offence. If someone died from his carelessnes it is arguably vehicular manslaughter - or at the very least careless driving causing death. I believe both of these (at least in Canada - don't know about California) are criminal code violations. I would not want to be in the driver's shoes trying to fight the charge in court.

Reply to
clare

Someday, I'll pilot an empty, and you take a truck full of gravel, and we'll try it. Not that I've driven truck, but the vehicles I've driven, it's different.

Reply to
Stormin Mormon

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