Honda generators

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1600 watt, you will tax it to a short life and may not get everything running at once. A furnace figure 375-425 watts with 600 surge, A frige figure 120-500 watts with 1000 surge in defrost cycle my old frige uses near 600 watts, TV 150 -300 w. You need to calculate surge load and have at least 1000 watts reserve. A unit that small will be under near 100% stress load and things dont last long stressed. Hondas site has a good page on run and surge load of different apliances. To be correct you need to test everything for load and surge draw first. Old apliances and things nearing end of life can have surge loads Tripple, that could realy hurt you unit. There is also voltage swing, unless its a inverter honda a small gen will be hard to control to run everything safely
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If you expect that the EU will normally be loaded above 1000 watts, you will get little benefit from the inverter technology. The really great thing about the inverter units is that they modulate engine speed depending on load. Over about 60% load (the EU 2000 is really only rated at 1600 watts) your EU will be reving like any other generator, and you will have given up most of the reason for all of that extra electronics, co$t, and complexity.

You are thinking about load management...good!

True, but be sure to chain the thing down!

Yes. I live in hurricane country, and the above is why my generator runs on natural gas with propane as a backup. Few folks think about the fuel consumption of their generators. I have seen people buy generators and not even bother to buy a gas can! At 1 gallon ($4.00) per hour, nearly $100/day (IF you can find the gas at all), I am sure that there are many folks in Texas today who would gladly pay MSRP for something like an EU2000i.
Vaughn
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Vaughn Simon wrote:

The refrigerator doesn't run all the time, it cycles on/off. And I /might/ not have to run the A/C. Even running a few hundred fewer RPM's for half the runtime has got to be easier on the engine. I expect it will be running less than 1000W most of the time, but I wonder if it has enough surge capacity (The Yamaha 2400 is an honest 2000W inverter and it's rated 6000W for 3 seconds. I like that. It also weighs a lot more; not sure if it can be shipped UPS Ground.)
I need to wait another couple of weeks for Texas to be powered-up again, then start calling the generator dealers. Especially the ones in Wisconsin because it's not so far/expensive to ship from there.
Bob
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How are you hooking it up, you realy need a transfer panel with what you plan on using, At Lowes I got a Generac 5500-7500 gen for 600$ with a free pre wired 6 circuit with 2 amp meter transfer panel. Your usage puts you at least in the 3000w range
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For what it is worth, I did some tests with a little 1000 watt Yamaha inverter generator. It ran my big 'fridge with a few hundred watts left over for computers and things. (In the defrost cycle however, it had to run full blast with everything else disconnected.) I forget the exact results, but it would run a normal refrigerator forever on a single gallon of gas. With that unit, you could keep your food cold keep a few lights on & run your TV for the evening on one gallon per day. It was so quiet that your neighbors would not even know you had a generator. Amazing.
Vaughn
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zxcvbob wrote:

I may have the Yamaha 2400i and 2800i models mixed up re: that 6000W thing.
I've done some searching and there are places that will ship them for reasonable shipping costs (like free), and they are both convertible to NG/LPG. They cost about the same, weigh about the same, but the 2800 is about 10 dB louder (that's a big difference.)
I wonder if I could run it *inside* my detached garage to keep it out of the weather and keep it from "walking off", and use some kind of powered exhaust vent...
Bob
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zxcvbob wrote:

No!
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Per zxcvbob:

How detached is "detached".
I'd be worried to the fringes of paranoia about carbon monoxide.
As far as the gennie goes, I've run mine in my garden shed (about 75' from the house) with no problems. OTOH, a garage is a lot nicer/cleaner environment to begin with and smell/exhaust fumes settling on things might be an issue. But as far as the generator being able to breathe goes, the garden shed seems tb ok. Roof line vent, couple jalousie windows, about 6 x 10 feet floor space.
--
PeteCresswell

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(PeteCresswell) wrote:

IIRC it's about 20 x 25 feet, with a high "ceiling" and open rafters. Couple of small windows in the back, and a double garage door that could be left cracked open an inch. It's about 20' from the house.
I use an unvented forced-air [kerosene] heater in there sometimes with no problems. I would probably add a 1600 cfm electric gable vent at the back, but that would be really handy anyway in the summer.
Bob
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Power failures up here in the mountains are practically a weekly affair so my generators get quite a workout. I roll my big one (either 5.5 kW Generac Quiet Pack or 10kW homemade diesel, depending on which fuel is the least cost at the moment) out 50 ft away from my cabin and I STILL get CO build-up in the cabin when the outside air is still.
I use a NightHawk CO detector, the rectangular one with the digital readout. It only takes a couple of hours sometimes to register >50 ppm in the cabin. I have a whole-house fan that I can run periodically to clear the air (windows on the other end of the cabin open) but that's a pain, especially in hot weather.
I'm going to have to do something to address this problem, as I can't go to sleep with the generator running for fear the house will load up with CO and I won't wake up. I'll probably make a vertical stack taller than my cabin that connects to the generator's exhaust.
I'd be VERY wary of running a generator inside any type of closed building absent the exhaust being plumbed outside and verified air-tight. I'd much rather roll the genny away from the house and sling a chain around it and a tree if you're afraid of it growing legs.
John -- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made with meat?
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Re: Honda (and Yamaha) generators:

That's lower than I used to get living in an apartment near a freeway in Pasadena CA. It never occured to me to take it in the car with me to see what the reading was while driving (sitting actually) on the freeway.
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wrote:

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I never run my generator inside my garage when I'm asleep. But I'm completely off-grid so I only use my generator to charge my batteries and run everything from inverters. One OutBack 3600 watt inverter will run a lot of stuff and doesn't cost all THAT much $$$. Add their X240 autotransformer and you can run a well pump or other 240 volt loads. They have all kinds of settings and controls so you can autostart a genny when the batteries are low and set it to not come on during the "quiet time."

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Don't do it. The old Maytag washing machine engines had a metal hose to direct the exhaust outside. Similar to how dryers exhaust through a duct. In winter auto garages would test engines with a hose over the exhast pipe and directed outside through a port.
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thing.
I have a rather roomy 3-car detached garage and I regularly run a 5000 watt genny in there with no additional ventilation other than opening the two big doors a foot or so, opening the small door and the window opposite the door. If I have any brain damage from exhaust fumes I can't tell.

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zxcvbob wrote:

Cabela's had the Yamaha EF2400is on sale for $1099, plus I had almost $200 in "Cabelas bucks" on my credit card, and they gave me a $150 gift card from a promotion they have going (good 'til the end of the year.) And I'll get $20 Cabelas bucks back.
I bought it last night. Was gonna try it out today, but the only 10w-30 oil I have handy is synthetic, and that doesn't seem like a good idea for breaking in a new engine. Will buy a quart of cheap oil tomorrow. At the first oil change I'll mix the remaining 10 ounces of cheap oil with 10 ounces of synthetic, then switch to all synthetic oil at the 2nd oil change.
The oil change schedule is longer than I expected; the first change is at 20 hours, then every 100 hours after that. I'm not sure I want to stretch it that far.
Any of you A.E.Homepower folk hook up an inverter generator to your house with a transfer switch? What do you do about grounding? (Normal generators bond the neutral, but inverters float the output and the neutral is isolated. I'm not sure if that matters) I assume you don't use an isolation transformer. Run three wires, and bond the ground and neutral at the transfer switch? I'm planning on using this with 10 ga and 12 ga extension cords and not tie into the house wiring so it won't really matter, but just thinking ahead.
Hmmm, an isolation transformer to step up 110V --> 220V with a center tap could be interesting...
Bob
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wrote:

If you have the generator neutral bonded you need to drive a rod and the transfer equipment also needs to switch the neutral. That will be a separately derived system. If you lift the neutral to ground bond in the generator you only switch the phase legs and you are using the grounding system in the service. That is probably the best way to do a small residential generator. You could even use one of the interlock kits that attach to your existing panel if you can get the breakers arranged right.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

What I'm concerned about is the generator has no bonding strap and no provision to add one. It does have a terminal on the frame for adding a grounding electrode conductor (but it's a small one that will not accommodate a #6 wire.) Not sure if bonding -- at the generator *or* at the switch -- will hurt the inverter circuitry. The owners manual is silent about it.
What I was thinking about someday is a 30A transfer switch with 6 or 8 circuit breakers, and use it as a subpanel right next to the main panel. I could move the critical circuits and a few convenience outlets to the little subpanel.
Bob
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You don't want to bond any generator connected with a transfer switch. Only place for bonding is in the main panel.
As you said, my Honda gives meaningless voltage readings UNTIL it is attached to the transferswitch. Then it has a 120v hot and a 0v neutral just like it should. I've run it for 5 days that way and it is just.
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jack wrote:

Right. But that will still pull the neutral at the generator to ground potential. I understand how to wire it right from the house's perspective, I just don't want to hurt the generator circuitry.

> *I've run it for 5 days that way and it is just [fine]*
That's what I needed to hear. :-)
It would be really cool if my main panel has a main-breaker lock-out kit* where the first breaker can only be closed if the main is open (and vice versa.) I need to check on that. It's a GE panel, about 15 or 20 years old. That would make it really easy. I could back-feed one leg of the panel without rewiring /anything/, just install one of those recessed-male weatherproof outlets on the back of the house. The lock-out kit would provide mechanical isolation from the mains.
*Do y'all know what I'm talking about? It's a sliding piece of metal that blocks the main breaker or the first circuit breaker, so only one can be closed at a time. I could fabricate one myself and rivet it in place but doubt that that would be Kosher.
Bob
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