Honda generators

[ransley]

The TRI fuel kits are great you can even run them off home NG at a cheaper cost.

[Cydrome Leader]

It is obnoxious to find honda stuff online, as they seem to not want their dealers to sell outside their territory. For just plain engines, I like a place called Helmuth Repair. They don't pull shipping price scams either.

What's better about the yamaha generators? Are these the ones with a blue housing?

[ransley]

[mkirsch1]

Honda has a good thing and they know it. Nobody else can come close to the reliability, durability, sound level, and power quality, even though they claim to do so, and price their products accordingly.

What Honda is doing is encouraging you to work through local dealers rather than allowing online companies to blatantly undercut the local dealers. They do it because they can.

This is pro mom-n-pop stores, not anti-consumer.

If you have a camping world in your area, and know someone with a president's club card, you can get the 2000 for $929, IIRC.

[zxcvbob]

That tri-fuel model looks very interesting. I also like that it is surge-rated to 6000W. It's heavier than I wanted... I'll have to think about it. Thanks.

Bob

[z]

Neon John wrote in news: [e-mail]:

I like the yamaha's too.. the newer ones. I got onto the honda only because the yamaha I bought had a problem with the inverter when they first came out with an inverter model. Much MUCH line noise. Yamaha fixed that but by that time I was a honda guy.

If I was going to start out fresh I'd give the Yamaha a hard look no doubt.

[zxcvbob]

I want to be able to run my furnace blower, gas oven ignitors, refrigerator, TV, laptop computer, and a few fluorescent lights during an extended power outage during the winter. Or during the summer, the same thing except a 8000 BTU (11 EER) window A/C instead of the furnace. I also have a couple of freezers that might need to be plugged in a couple of hours each day, but I could unplug the fridge when I do that. I think I could get by OK with a generator rated for 110V 1600W continuous power. I could certainly get by with it a lot better than I could with no generator at all.

The Honda is also a nice size to throw in the back of a truck to take to a job site to run 110V power tools, like various electric saws or lighting.

I keep putting off buying a generator because the power here in town is so reliable. But my parents down in East Texas near Houston have been living off a cheap 5000W generator for a week now and it's scary how fast it burns up the gasoline they had stored. One gas station just opened up for business again a couple of days ago (all the other stations are still closed because they don't have power) and you have to wait for hours in line at the one Exxon station and hope they don't run out before you get to the front of the line. We don't get hurricanes up here, but we do get tornadoes and ice storms (usually not at the same time)

That's why the tri-fuel conversion looks mighty good.

Bob

[ransley]

1600 watt, you will tax it to a short life and may not get everything running at once. A furnace figure 375-425 watts with 600 surge, A frige figure 120-500 watts with 1000 surge in defrost cycle my old frige uses near 600 watts, TV 150 -300 w. You need to calculate surge load and have at least 1000 watts reserve. A unit that small will be under near 100% stress load and things dont last long stressed. Hondas site has a good page on run and surge load of different apliances. To be correct you need to test everything for load and surge draw first. Old apliances and things nearing end of life can have surge loads Tripple, that could realy hurt you unit. There is also voltage swing, unless its a inverter honda a small gen will be hard to control to run everything safely

[Vaughn Simon]

If you expect that the EU will normally be loaded above 1000 watts, you will get little benefit from the inverter technology. The really great thing about the inverter units is that they modulate engine speed depending on load. Over about 60% load (the EU 2000 is really only rated at 1600 watts) your EU will be reving like any other generator, and you will have given up most of the reason for all of that extra electronics, co$t, and complexity.

You are thinking about load management...good!

True, but be sure to chain the thing down!

Yes. I live in hurricane country, and the above is why my generator runs on natural gas with propane as a backup. Few folks think about the fuel consumption of their generators. I have seen people buy generators and not even bother to buy a gas can! At 1 gallon ($4.00) per hour, nearly $100/day (IF you can find the gas at all), I am sure that there are many folks in Texas today who would gladly pay MSRP for something like an EU2000i.

Vaughn

[zxcvbob]

The refrigerator doesn't run all the time, it cycles on/off. And I /might/ not have to run the A/C. Even running a few hundred fewer RPM's for half the runtime has got to be easier on the engine. I expect it will be running less than 1000W most of the time, but I wonder if it has enough surge capacity (The Yamaha 2400 is an honest 2000W inverter and it's rated 6000W for 3 seconds. I like that. It also weighs a lot more; not sure if it can be shipped UPS Ground.)

I need to wait another couple of weeks for Texas to be powered-up again, then start calling the generator dealers. Especially the ones in Wisconsin because it's not so far/expensive to ship from there.

Bob

[ransley]

How are you hooking it up, you realy need a transfer panel with what you plan on using, At Lowes I got a Generac 5500-7500 gen for 600$ with a free pre wired 6 circuit with 2 amp meter transfer panel. Your usage puts you at least in the 3000w range

[m II]

That 15000 hours is more likely with a slow diesel or a water cooled gas engine. I'd venture to say the Honda is more realistically rated at 2 to

3 thousand hours maximum, as compared to Briggs and Stratton's 500 hundred.

mike

[Vaughn Simon]

For what it is worth, I did some tests with a little 1000 watt Yamaha inverter generator. It ran my big 'fridge with a few hundred watts left over for computers and things. (In the defrost cycle however, it had to run full blast with everything else disconnected.) I forget the exact results, but it would run a normal refrigerator forever on a single gallon of gas. With that unit, you could keep your food cold keep a few lights on & run your TV for the evening on one gallon per day. It was so quiet that your neighbors would not even know you had a generator. Amazing.

Vaughn

[ransley]

I have talked to people that claim near 15000 on campers. The reason is simple, the EU is not a 3600 rpm unit unless its full load, RPM is load dependant. Put it on a camper to run a few hundred watts and the

3500 watt unit might turn 900 rpm. At 900 RPM it might just last 50000 hours. There is a 900 rpm Deisel made in India that are known to last 100,000 hours. But load up a EU and 1500 - 2000 hours might ruin it. Take a car on a race track it might not last a day, drive it easy it might last 150000 miles. Tecumpsee and B&S non ohv 3600 rpm motors might only go 3-350 hours, mine did.

[zxcvbob]

I may have the Yamaha 2400i and 2800i models mixed up re: that 6000W thing.

I've done some searching and there are places that will ship them for reasonable shipping costs (like free), and they are both convertible to NG/LPG. They cost about the same, weigh about the same, but the 2800 is about 10 dB louder (that's a big difference.)

I wonder if I could run it *inside* my detached garage to keep it out of the weather and keep it from "walking off", and use some kind of powered exhaust vent...

Bob

[terry]

Re the above discussion of Honda versus Yamaha. Is it not interesting that some of the best products (generators, motor cycles, cars, electronics etc.) come from Japan; one of the countries with high wages, and one of the most expensive to live in in the world! Back before WWII Japanese goods were considered tinny and cheap, same as Chinese and certain other Asian goods are viewed today. Just wait until the Chinese, as they are rapidly doing, improve the quality of their products and raise their standard of living, along with competition from India. The rest of the 'Old World' won't get a look in! So long British bicycles, German cars, US electronics and electrics etc.! For some time certain 'quality products' such as custom built yachts and fine furniture, have been produced in places such as Hong Kong, once again part of China. Makes on think, eh?

[Boden]

No!

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per zxcvbob:

How detached is "detached".

I'd be worried to the fringes of paranoia about carbon monoxide.

As far as the gennie goes, I've run mine in my garden shed (about

75' from the house) with no problems. OTOH, a garage is a lot nicer/cleaner environment to begin with and smell/exhaust fumes settling on things might be an issue. But as far as the generator being able to breathe goes, the garden shed seems tb ok. Roof line vent, couple jalousie windows, about 6 x 10 feet floor space.

[zxcvbob]

IIRC it's about 20 x 25 feet, with a high "ceiling" and open rafters. Couple of small windows in the back, and a double garage door that could be left cracked open an inch. It's about 20' from the house.

I use an unvented forced-air [kerosene] heater in there sometimes with no problems. I would probably add a 1600 cfm electric gable vent at the back, but that would be really handy anyway in the summer.

Bob

[Neon John]

Your parents' experience with the gas hog is one reason why I asked the question. Far too many people find out the hard way about how much fuel it takes to keep a 4 or 5kW generator running.

Unless you go for the very high dollar 3 or 4kW versions, an inverter generator isn't a good match for your load mix. The reason is that they have no surge reserve. That is, no motor starting reserve.

For instance, the EU2000 has a continuous rating of 1,600 VA (nice little fib there in the model number) but a peak of only 2000 VA. A momentary load, say, starting the compressor of the AC, of even a tiny bit over 2000 VA and the inverter shuts down, requiring an engine stop and restart.

A conventional generator, OTOH, may slow down a little and dip the voltage but it will supply much more surge current than its nominal full load rating. In isolation, an EU2000 or Yamaha equivalent would probably run any of the items you mentioned (minor question on the AC) The problem is trying to run several loads at once.

For instance, you might have the lights, a PC and the refrigerator running when the little AC tries to start. There simply isn't enough headroom left to do the job.

Yamaha has addressed this problem with their "boost" technology that uses the cranking battery to supply surge current

But this is a high dollar generator.

What I recommend is to get two different generators: a little 1kW unit to run your lights, PC and other light loads and a larger one, say 2500 watts, for the AC, furnace blower and perhaps the refrigerator. (depending on the fridge, it might run on the 1kW unit.)

The 1 kW unit which just sips fuel, can be run all the time. The larger generator can either be started and stopped as needed or can use the no-load idle-down feature that almost all constant-speed generators have to return to idle when no load is applied.

Buying chicom generators, you can get two for less than the price of one big name inverter generator. The 1kW 2-stroke unit that Northern Tool and others sell for as little as $99 does a fine job. I have two of 'em. One of those will start and run my electric lawn mower, something my 2,500 watt inverter will not do. A 4-stroke version is about double that price but, IMO, not worth it. The 2-stroke version is fairly quiet and with "no smoke" oil like Northern Tool sells, emits almost no fumes.

Harbor Freight, Pep Boys and many other similar places sell a nice little 2500 watt generator in the $300 range. Some versions use a honda clone engine manufactured under license from Honda. (I know the Pep Boys one does, not sure about the rest) Here's Harbor Freight's version:

If you dedicate the 2500 watt unit to the AC, furnace fan and perhaps the refrigerator then it can idle down when there is no load, further conserving fuel.

If you really just want 1 generator then I'd go with something in the 2500 watt class.

John

-- John De Armond See my website for my current email address