For a good laugh, check out the Nest thermostat....

I first heard about this a couple years ago and the whole concept sounded a bit dubious. Apparently the guy responsible for the Ipod design at Apple started a company to make a thermostat. It's a beautiful design, a retro, round thermostat that look really cool. But, even upon first hearing about it, I was a bit skeptical. It has motion sensors in it and it's supposed to come up with a setback schedule based on how it learns your temp settings and occupancy patterns. It was a thermostat for those too lazy to spend 15 mins figuring out how to program one of the typical digital ones. For me, it made little sense. But, I could see it being used in say vacation rental properties.
Recently, I got a little more cuious and started to check it out. Anyone that's interested in a good laugh, should see the reviews at Amazon. What a cluster f**. From reading the reviews, apparently some of the major problems are:
It lacks a hold button. So, this thing that makes up schedules on it's own, can set the temp to whatever it pleases and you can't just set a temp and select to hold it. Could anyone be so dumb as to not include that? And they've been told for years now that customers say that's a big problem. You come home from work sick, set it to 72 and then it just proceeds to do whatever it wants and you don't even know what it plans to do. So, 30 mins later, it could be back to 60F and without checking it constantly, you wouldn't even know.
In the interests of widespread compatibility, they pretend it can work with systems that don't have a wire for power. So, they try to steal power to charge the battery from the wires coming from the furnace. That was probably OK when everyone had an old furnace with a Xformer and relay. But now furnaces have circuit boards that use little current. Net result, the battery doesn;t get charged. And in an attempt to charge it, the Nest apparently fires up the HVAC even when it's not needed. but even that doesn't appear to work.
To try to fit 10lbs of stuff into a 2 lb little round thermostat, apparently they put FET transistors into the base, instead of using relays like most thermostats. The FETS are apparently failing all over the place and when they fail, they fail ON. So, you have many people reporting that the Nest has either the heat or the AC on constantly. Some have BOTH on at the same time! There are reports of people coming home when it's 20F outside and finding their AC running. And this from a widget that was gonna save you money.
Then there is the self-heating problem. It has wifi built in, which I'd want in a new thermostat. But, cramming that 10 lbs of stuff into a 2 lb bag apparently has resulted in the unit self-heating. So people are saying that the house is 75 but the thermostat thinks it's 80, so it's running the AC.
Then there is the issue that since it's wifi connected, Nest can download new software to it at any time and you have no option to decline. Apparently they just did such a download, and it drained people's batteries so the thing no longer worked. Would you not have an option to be able to choose when you do an upgrade on a mission critical device?
It;s really an unbelievable example of making something cute without regard for reliability. IMO, it's a bunch of hippies with no HVAC experience trying to trick people into something that's cool for $250.
And to top it off, Google just bought this pile of crap for $2bil. Unbelievable.
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On Monday, January 27, 2014 10:53:43 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Forgot to include the link to the 1900 reviews at Amazon:
(Amazon.com product link shortened)
How something this crappy can have a 4 star rating at Amazon is another interesting question.....
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

You have to read reviews with grain of salt. I even suspect there are paid professional reviewers praising junk products. On the other hand some good stuffs are rated low because buyer(s) not smart enough to use the product properly. I think technology advancement makes people dumber. I am afraid down the road Google will even own some government(s), LOL!
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The techology does seem to have dumbed down people doing some simple tasks. Just try and have them makc change at a store if the computers are down. Some don;t even seem to be able to take cash as so many just swipe a card now. Google probably has as much money pass through it as many small countries. Could probably buy some of them.
I understand some in Texas are wanting to cut the state into thirds and get a few more congressmen.
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Ralph Mowery wrote:

As does some in California, but into 6 states. http://preview.tinyurl.com/psdjfks How would they initialize North California and South California? NC and SC are already taken by the Carolinas.
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On 1/31/2014 5:48 PM, willshak wrote:

Rename them Dumb and Dumber.
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On 1/31/2014 9:06 PM, Steve F. wrote:

and South Mexifornia. Naah, NM is New Mexico. This will take some thought.
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On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:23:06 -0500, Stormin Mormon

NBC and MBC? (North Baja California and Middle Baja California)
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On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 07:53:43 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

I have one. Though I bought because our other house was vacant and I wanted to keep tabs on it for the Winter. I would have used the remote features in the Summer, too.

It's amazing how some people will yammer on about what they have no clue about.

Wrong. Set it to "Away". Program "Away" to anything you want.

Wrong. My system has been on once in five months.

No experience with that here. It's been flawless.

More uneducated nonsense.

That part is true. I'm not happy, now that Google bought the company. I'm considering whether to buy another or scrap the whole thing for an alternative.

People will bitch about anything. You bitch about what you have no knowledge of.

$3B, but who's counting.
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On Monday, January 27, 2014 9:02:59 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

There are many other thermostats that have that capability, including the Honeywell VisionPro. After reading those reviews on Amazon, the Nest is the last think I'd ever rely on at someplace that's vacant. Read all the Amazon reviews where either the heat was full on or the AC, or both. And by full on, I don't mean up to some max temp of 85, 90, etc. I mean the thing was shorted so the furnace was running 100% of the time.

Who would those people be? There are 1900 reviews of the Nest on Amazon written by people who own or owned them. Some of the very first ones that come up are by HVAC techs that install them. Many are also by people who say they are experienced with electroncs, furnaces, etc. and what they are reporting sounds credible, unless you think some newbie knows what a FET is and how it's different than a relay. And the complaints are remarkably similar, eg that they use FETS on the backplate that fail, leaving the system on full heat or cool, etc. That the batteries die because it can't steal power from their system and then the wifi drops, etc. That there is no hold button, etc.
Oh, I understand another nice feature is that like Apple products, it has a battery that's supposed to last 5 years or so and that you can't replace. That's nice on a $250 thermostat. Can't replace the battery, so you do what? Just wait until it dies one fine day in winter? Get a new one every 2 years so you have confidence it will keep working?

Why should you have to "program" the away temp? If it's currently 70F, the thermostat is set to 70F, then with any other thermostat I've ever seen, including the $20 ones, you just push a button and it stays at the current temp. And if next time you want it to hold the current temp, you don't have to program what away is set to again. If it's 65 and you want it to stay 65, you just push the button that says "hold".

Did you read all the posts on Amazon? Because yours works doesn't mean they all work, with all types, brands of furnaces. There are a whole range of failures, from it would not work with their system out of the box, to it worked for just a few days, to it failed after a few months. Maybe your time is coming.

Hmmm, your experience with one, versus 1900 reports on Amazon. Which has more relevance? And even your doesn't have a hold button.

It's been reported by many people on Amazon. Did you even read the reports? People have documented it, using thermometers. The house is 64, the thermostat is set to and thinks it's 70, because it is 70 at the themostat.

Oh my, if it works so well, why would you do that?

I'm not the one bitching, idiot. I just referred anyone who is interested to the 1900 reviews by people on Amazon and some of the major issues many people are reporting. Not just one or two people, but many people describing the exact problem.
There's even ones there complaining about the Nest not having a hold button. They said 400 people have made that complaint on the Nest customer forum. Nest even responded to that complaint on Amazon. They didn't deny that it has no hold feature or offer a way around it. They said they are always looking at improvements, please post your comments on our website. Another reviewer says 400 people have posted that for years and Nest still hasn't done anything. Let's see, you build a thermostat, but you're too dumb to know people need a "hold" button.
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I have one too -- with none of the problems described above.
If the thermostat fails and fails in the heat-on position, that is what I would want in the middle of winter where I would have frozen pipes and water damage if it failed in the heat-off position. If I was home when it failed I certainly would notice. If it failed in the air conditioning mode on position, I may not notice for a while because my system often will normally run 24/7 in a heat wave.
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On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 13:51:53 -0500, "EXT"

My downstairs systems (the Nest is on the upstairs) often runs 24/7 in the Winter. If it's below 20F, or so, at night it's all it can do to keep up. The night it was 7F it dropped 3F from the set point.
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When did you start believing what "posters recently said here"?
I like my Nest. I *don't* like Google owning them.
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You repeated it. That, alone, gives it some credence. ;-)

I "bought into" it because it solved a problem (house vacant for maybe a year). I don't really care what others "bought into". If you don't want the features, no skin off my nose. I'm not a lefty.
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wrote in message
I first heard about this a couple years ago and the whole
problem. You come home from work sick, set it to 72 and then it just proceeds to do whatever it wants and you don't even know what it plans to do. So, 30 mins later, it . The FETS are apparently failing all over the place and when they fail, they fail ON. So, you have many people reporting that the Nest has either the heat or the AC on constantly. Some have BOTH on at the same time! There are reports of people coming home when it's 20F outside and finding their AC running. And this from a widget that was gonna save you money.
Snip
I use a thermostat called Ultra Bought them several years ago. Running 6 zones on hot water heat and 1 zone on AC. Can set for 4 changes a day and vary the changes for each day. Have had no problems . If I recall they cost less than $40. WW
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wrote:

Is connected to your router via WiFi? If so, maybe I'm interested.
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On Tuesday, January 28, 2014 6:12:08 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

What, google's broken? There are lots of thermostats that are wifi now and that work, unlike apparently the Nest.
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Nat Gas up over 10% today, maybe Google knows more than we thought, http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=UNG&t ]&l=on&z=l&q=l&c
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