Replacing my Trane thermostat with a Nest thermostat

[Sid 03]

Trying to replace a Trane thermostat with a Nest thermostat and I have just had a long chat with Nest support. The Trane system has two extra wires (brown and black) that are connected to an outdoor temp sensor. I am assuming that the thermostat needs to know the outside temp to know when to stop using the heat-pump and only use the Aux/Nat' Gas heat.

Nest support states that there system does not need any outdoor sensors because it gets its outdoor temp from WiFi (Nat' weather service, Phones home ?, I don't know) . Support keeps stating that its part of the sense system.

I don't know if using Nest system is the best idea. Support states that the Nest thermostat system that I have is capable of controlling this heat-pump system, but I would have to use the multi-function '*' terminal to control the Aux' heat system and would not be able to add a humidifier feature in the future.

Anyone have any experience w/Nest thermostats ? Thanks

[trader_4]

I looked into them a bit years ago. I dislike the idea that you don't program them, they sense your movement, when the house is occupied, when it's not, and come up with a program and actions of it's own. I prefer one where I tell it what to do. In my usage, I can't imagine that some program is going to come up with something that's more comfortable or that saves more energy that amounts to anything. The one benefit might be that if I leave and forget to turn the thermostat back, the Nest would do that. IDK if they have changed that approach, maybe you can actually program them now. I have a Honeywell VisionPro that is fully 7 day programmable. It's most advanced logic is that for temp setback, you just set the time and target temp for when it should go back to normal. It then figures out how much earlier to start raising or lowering the temp to get there. That works perfectly. And the VP costs half what a Nest does.

The heat pump switch over via internet temperature would work, but again, I'd prefer the direct connected outside temp sensor that you already have. Suppose your wifi router gets stuck in some fouled up mode while you are away? In my experience that's more likely than a thermistor failing. Also, if it's a new system, I would read what the Trane warranty says, eg if the compressor blows up, you don't want them to say the Next thermostat caused it.

[trader_4]

Should have added that back when I was looking into the Nest, with regards to it not being programmable, but learning and doing what it does on it's own, there were lots of stories of people fighting with it. Like they usually go to work at 7, but one day they were home sick. They claimed that despite their efforts, they could not get it to leave the temp alone while they were sick on the couch. IDK if that was Nest or they didn't know what they were doing. I mean you would think there would be a way to set it at 75 and have it just maintain that until you release it.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Looks like two models, one is "learning" the other you program. Looks like they can be set by the phone app in either case. I have no idea if you can adjust on the t-stat itself.

In my last house I had the Honeywells and they were simple and reliable.

This house I have one but have not programmed it. It is right outside the bedroom so I set it down going to bed, set it up in the morning. Some days I go to the gym and shower when I get back so I keep the temperature lower longer and the days and times vary so a simple program would not work for me.

[micky]

When they get outdoor temperature from wifi, is that right outside the owner's home or is it at the airport 20 miles away, or at some nearby weather station 2 miles away?

Do they use wifi because they think it's better than the temperature by the house? Surely it's not cheaper. It seems having both would cost hardly anymore money.

[micky]

I think DeSantis said he didn't want people controlling their thermostats in violation of state rules.

Years ago I think I saw a programmable thermostat with a Next button. If you got home 2 hours early, pressing one button one time would apply the settings for 2 hours later. If you left home late and it had switched to Away, Next would go to the settings when you were expected home.

It would automatically catch up when the actual time reached the next-settings time.

But I didnt' buy it when I saw it. And all the thermostats for decades just let you press up the right number of times until you got to the temp you wanted (assuming you even remembered what temp that was). "NEXT" was so much simpler and quicker.

[Marilyn Manson]

I don't know where people got the idea that you can't set a schedule on the Nest thermostats. All Nest thermostats give the user the ability to program them via either the Nest app or the Google Home app (depending on your model and when bought it.) It's been that way for years, every since they first came out IIRC.

I have had a Nest E since 2017 and have never let it "learn" - although it can. I set and manage the schedule on my smartphone.

The only automatic thing I allow is that I am set up for "Energy Rush Hours". My utility can raise my AC setting by up to 3 degrees for a max of 4 hours during peak usage hours. No more than 15 times during the cooling season. It will sometimes pre-cool the house prior to the Rush Hour, overriding the schedule if it thinks that that is more efficient.

By allowing that, I get a $20 rebate on my bill. It has more than paid for the thermostat by now.

The newer models also have "auto-schedule" which is set using averages for your area. But even that can be changed.

I don't recall a time when you *couldn't* program them. I could be wrong, but I believe that a lot people simply heard the description of the "learning feature" and missed the part about manual programming. Could have been bad marketing on Nest's part.

The Nest stats also have Early-On. They also have many other features, such as Sunblock so that it doesn't think the house is too warm just because the stat is in the sun.

I like the ability to raise or lower the temp, turn the fan and adjust settings via the app, without having to touch the stat.

[Marilyn Manson]

The lack of the hold feature *was* my one complaint. They have now added that feature in their stats, although how you use them varies by model. On the Nest-E I can set the "hold" temps in the Eco mode section and then switch to Eco mode to hold that temp. I believe that other models have an actual "hold" feature. All off this can be done at the stat or via the app.

[Marilyn Manson]

Did you ask Nest support *where* it gets the temperature from? Seems like they would know,

The last I heard (2019 data) was that Nest uses the Weather Channel so you need to make sure your location is set up correctly.

I also believe that there are IFTTT recipes written for the Nest stats.

IFTTT = "If This Then That"

Maybe, if the source of your local weather data varies by some amount from actual, you could use an IFTTT recipe to account for the variance. Just mentioning this, don't know much about it.

See my general response to Trader4. Unfortunately, my experience does not include heat pumps - yet. A family member just bought a house with a heat pump and if I know him like I think I do, he'll probably look into a Nest since that is what he installed in his last house.

You're welcome.

[trader_4]

That's a pretty big thing. I would not buy any thermostat that would not simply hold the set temperature indefinitely. I can't imagine any competent designer building such a thing either.

They have now added

So it's still not via a simple, obvious hold button. Got it.

[gfretwell]

I imagine DeSantis would say he didn't want some geek in California controlling your thermostat you should be able to control your own thermostat. These are the types of thermostats that get the rumor started that the government will be telling you what temperature your house should be.

We use this one

[Marilyn Manson]

There are no actual "buttons" on a nest, so no. Got it?

What model Honeywell VisionPro do you have?

[Marilyn Manson]

DeSantis would love a Nest. You are not only able to control your own thermostat but you have the option of letting it control itself if you want it to, and switch back and forth anytime you want. Now that's free choice.

...and those are the rumors that idiots believe and spread.

[Tekkie©]

On Wed, 4 Aug 2021 09:51:38 -0700 (PDT), Sid 03 posted for all of us to digest...

use the Aux/Nat' Gas heat.

I know some people that have them and didn't like them. Like other posters state the 'programming' is sketchy.

You can get a Honeywell Wifi (which Trane re-brands as their own) IIRC model

8000 ??. I have one for my oil boiler and love if. If it gets uncomfortable I can just use my tablet to go the settings web-page and change it. It's super easy to program and gets the outside temp from a service (I forget which). IDK if this works with your heat pump but I would call them.

[gfretwell]

The PoCo makes that decision, a distinction without a difference and once that hardware is in place, who knows what the green deal people might propose? You folks are already talking about using the NAV in cars to bill a road tax right here.

[Marilyn Manson]

"You folks"? God, you are so tiring.

What *decision* is the PoCo making? Be specific.

[Ed Pawlowski]

If you sign up for it, they can increse your temperature temporarily for a few hour s day. I did it in CT with my window units. They gave me a plug to use and they could shut if off during peak hours. I forget the incentive but they only cut the power once in two years. I came out well ahead.

[gfretwell]

Using your remote thermostat to dial down your AC or heat when they have stress on their system.

[gfretwell]

Fine with my. My Honda doesn't have a clue where it is. (No GPS at all) The speedo was tricked up when I got it so it doesn't even know how far it went.

BTW that idea has made the rounds from both sides of the aisle. Those techy folks on the left coast have been pushing "smart technology" for all sorts of taxation and regulation.

[gfretwell]

My Mom had it on her water heater and AC. All was well until it wasn't. The PoCo had so many complaints they just did away with the whole program. The hardware was still there until I reworked the panel and ripped the whole mess out. Got some nice contactors out of it ;-)