Feedback please: Filling drywalled partition with concrete...

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Guest987 here (using a computer at work). What does "UF" refer to? When you say, remove the romex "before it degrades", are you saying that something in the romex insulation will chemically react with the PVC of the conduit? Where you continue, "before it degrades--which it will as there will be water accumulated in the conduit", I'm not clear what you mean. Do you mean "water accumulated" from internal condensation somehow, or leakage due to PVC breakdown of the PVC moisture barrier?

Not sure what you mean by "the whole run". I used conduit the entire length of wiring that is underground. But not inside the building, if that's what you meant.
Guest987
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Guest987 here (using a computer at work). What does "UF" refer to? When you say, remove the romex "before it degrades", are you saying that something in the romex insulation will chemically react with the PVC of the conduit? Where you continue, "before it degrades--which it will as there will be water accumulated in the conduit", I'm not clear what you mean. Do you mean "water accumulated" from internal condensation somehow, or leakage due to PVC breakdown of the PVC moisture barrier?

Not sure what you mean by "the whole run". I used conduit the entire length of wiring that is underground. But not inside the building, if that's what you meant.
Guest987
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Had to look this acronym up. (It was not UF romex.)

Two questions: (1) Water will degrade the PVC sheath of the romex? (2) Why should we expect water to accumulate in the conduit though? The fittings between lengths, junction boxes, elbows, etc were all carefully cemented (and ostensibly, thereby sealed) with solvent type PVC cement. Or are you taking about water due to condensation? (Or, again, maybe you're anticipating water content of the lubricant I used?)

I do not understand this last statement.
Thanks,
Guest987
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guest987 wrote:

Despite your best attempts, <eventually> there virtually surely will be a leak and water will find a way in. Only underground-rated cable should be used in an underground run despite the conduit. Normally (unless there is an access tunnel in an industrial site, for example) conduit is used to protect the cable from the above ground junction to the required depth then the cable is laid in a trench. A protective barrier is sometimes used over the cable, but not normally full run buried <in> conduit. It's not an immediate danger, but eventually it is virtually certain to get water...
Danger, fogey story... :)
Used to work w/ online coal analyzers at mines, prep plants, etc. Had location at mine in KY where they pulled the high voltage signal power cable (2.4kV) and had to go from the control shack where the electronics/computer were housed across a truck crossing to the analyzer mounted on the beltline. That installation was the mine's responsibility, wasn't around when they did it. Installed the unit, brought it up, calibrated it, watched for a few hours, went home...two weeks later, get call...it's not operating. Drive up, discover HV cable shorted. Hood up the spare (we did require a spare be pulled in the specs), it worked, calibrated, watched, went home. Within six months second failed...turned out they had buried the cables in conduit and it filled w/ water. HV instrumentation cable isn't designed for water immersion and water also got inside the insulation. Didn't help they had pulled the cable through the conduit by hooking it to a front end loader when they couldn't pull it by hand :(, but that was secondary...
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I see. So conduit was never meant to be a substitute for rubber-sheathed underground-rated cable in the first place. And here people were conveying to me that rubber-sheathed underground-cable was something new in that it didn't require conduit underground! So I chose conduit thinking that was the 'tried-and-proven' standard method of laying underground cable. I now see I got it wrong. Well, the cable hasn't been tied in to the power yet (decided to wait until I can get the cash to hire a licensed electrician for the inside-of-house wiring --mainly for insurance reasons). Guess I'll be pulling out all the romex (as well as the single-strand-wires) from the conduit and replacing with underground-rated cable then. I have junction boxes underground too where power gets split to serve two separate destinations. (The rubber-sealed junction box covers, I had reinforced with silicone sealant --but come to think of it, silicone does in time lose some of its effectiveness), Guess I'll have to modify the cable layout scheme, in order to serve all of the separate power destinations, without those junctions...

They pulled with wire through with a front loader?! LOL! Now that's a case of applying too much 'brawn', as it were, and not enough brain. Why didn't they just use an approved lubricant and avoid stretching (if not the risk of breaking) the cable? (Don't try to answer. I'm sure you wondered the same thing.)
Thanks,
Guest987
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I'm posting a duplicate of this message until the title, "Re: Underground wiring questions...".
Ken

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I am not an electrician. I have been involved with commercial construction for over 40 years. Each type and diameter of conduit has a capacity rating based on size of wire and type of insulation. There are formulae for derating the number of allowed wires in a conduit based on several factors.
Most installations use conduit and wire. I have never seen a commercial electrician use Romex or direct bury cable in conduit. There is no reason to use direct bury cable. It has a UV inhibitor built into it and may or may not have an armored sheath to help prevent critters from chewing through it.
Your very best information will come from a licensed electrician in your area, preferably the one who will do the eventual tie in. Don't set him up with surprises that will have to be torn back out to be code compliant. Many electricians will work with an owner to do final tie in based on quality of rough in. They will want to see the rough in before the inspector.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Keep the whole world singing . . . . DanG (remove the sevens) snipped-for-privacy@7cox.net

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guest987 wrote:

Guest987:
I missed this post of yours. You are more the imitator-poseur than I would have guessed. You ignore the true scientific meanings of terms, and you use terms for the concrete effect of social appearances without an understanding of the consequences.
You don't think in terms of the principles involved with what you say, and you refuse to understand the cause and effect relationships of the ideas that you spew out. Your questions are phony.
It appears that it doesn't matter what people say, and that you intend to accomplish a failure.
You also have failed to seriously acknowledge the suggestions that people have made, and you insult them by persisting in some fancy verbal dancing about the matter without actually recognizing the reality of the problem or the suggested recommendations.
Ultimately, you say that you were trolling for effect.
You've lost respect.
Ralph Hertle
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Wrapping electric boxes in duct tape, gasketing electric face plates, sealing joints at molding, gasketing doors, instlling solid core doors, acoustic insulation inside connecting duct work. These are less dangerous that concrete.
TB
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I think your efforts would go further to look at "no warp" foam. This is a soft white foam that does not generate the pressures that concrete will. One brand would be touch 'n seal: http://www.touch-n-seal.com/nowarpgun.htm
If your walls are 8' tall and you fill them to capacity, the hydraulic pressure at the bottom of the "forms" will be in the 1200 psi range. This is hard enough to do with form ply, snap ties, whalers, and stiff backs. Others have noted other reasons to not do this.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Keep the whole world singing . . . . DanG (remove the sevens) snipped-for-privacy@7cox.net

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Really? :-)
Nick
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psf, sorry.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Keep the whole world singing . . . . DanG (remove the sevens) snipped-for-privacy@7cox.net

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Are you a troll? Listen to what others have said. Commerical insulators have foam products that might be worth looking at. They would fill the voids, which apparently are accessible. Go google < foam "sound insulation" > and read through the 19.8K sites. If you look at the ads, you may even find some do-it-yourself systems. More research appears called for. Measure twice, cut once!
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You've got a start: Weight, containing ability of drywall. Add: Moisture, electrical shorts, entombment of wiring in the wall, shri nkage cracks allowing flanking paths for sound.
TB
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derision, hate mail, etc., Guest987 . . .
. . . just sympathy.
Jim
(I emphatize with your need, Guest987, for annonimity, but don't expect that to shield you from law suits or gun shots from your concreted-partition-contiguous neighbor.)
JL.
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guest987 wrote:

Oh come on, elaborate why don't you. You're posting anonymously, why not?
You're sure to get better results from masking the sound.
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not the least of it, but concrete isn't a good insulator for sound.
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desires. Don't know what you mean by " . . . a good insulator for sound." that would by your definition exclude "blocking," as I interpret the OP. (I mean, the use of concrete definitely "is'nt a good insulator for sound" in the OP's proposed applicaion, but your statement implies any application.)
Jim
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doesn't it depend upon the frequency of the sound that is the problem? how do prisoners have tap code since typical prisons have cement walls?
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Jim
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