Exterior Paint Estimate for this house

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http://www.dongardner.com/plan_details.aspx?pID 3
http://www.dongardner.com/images.aspx?pid 3&fn=exteriors%5c235front1.jpg is very similar. The floor plans are very similar. The one rear exterior photo is not accurate. That garage looks to be bigger than the actual plans.
Can anyone venture an estimate to the nearest $500 -- $2000, 2500, 3000, 3500, etc. broken out by prep labor, paint labor, and paint?
The existing paint is in good shape -- no peeling, minor fading, but it's ready for another fresh coat. The paint store quoted about $49 per gallon, but a handyman said he could get it for around $39 per gallon.
The caulk around windows and doors needs to be replaced. What should I expect for this? They will remove all the old caulk? Or tear off the easy stuff and caulk over the old?
BM Moorgard was used last time. I'm thinking to go back with the same paint and color.
Thanks,
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So...you're looking for a free estimate. Umm, okay. Please provide the following information: Where the house is located, what the existing labor situation is in your area, what the going rate for a painter is in your area, how busy painter's are in your area, how gullible you are and whether you will be able to differentiate between a good painter and someone who talks like they're a good painter, what sort of obstructions and hindrances (shrubbery and the like), how picky you are, what sort of car you drive (if it's in the driveway, it will be taken note of before an estimate is given), whether you believe a sprayed paint job has to be backrolled or not.
Once I have all of that I'll be able to give you a number. Unfortunately that number will have exactly zero bearing on reality and what you will end up paying, as the only person that will have a say in the pricing is the guy you will end up hiring.
So maybe it's best if you just first locate that guy that you will end up hiring - you know, the one that will give you a good feeling, comes with good references, did a good job on a house that you personally saw, and gives you a price you can live with, and just cut my random internet ass out of the loop!
I'm messing with you a bit, but the only number that means anything is the one that you will get from a contractor that you can actually hire. If Benjamin Moore himself crawled out of the grave and gave you a _perfect_ estimate number, it's still useless unless a real flesh and blood, ready, willing and able painter is willing to do it for that price. So go find that guy.
R
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Are you calling me a thief?! ;)
And, for the record, as far as I can tell I am the first to give Benjamin Moore life and then take it away.
R
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If I could do that, I'd be working for the NSA doing remote viewing and making some real money.
Steve
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kansascats wrote:

I spent all night making a spread sheet and came up with 1993.47 for labor, 594.52 for paint, 1287.20 for prep labor. which came to 4999.99 with discount and extras applied.
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Many variables of course. But with the plans sitting in front of you -- the rough size of the house which could be used to approximate the total SF, it seems some estimate like 1 day of wash, 2 days of prep, 4 days to paint siding, 1 day for trim, could be reasonable. Figure $40/hr and we come to $2560 plus paint & supplies. Moorgard is around 35-50 per gal depending on who you ask -- figure $40 for a contractor. I have no idea how much caulk, but that cannot be a significant item, so forget it.
House is basically 65x60 -- so figure 250 linear feet x 10 high (includes the soffits), plus the dormers and porch ceilings, so add 50% brings us to 3600 sf / 300 sf /gal = 12 gallons.
So now I"m at 2500 labor, 500 paint. My idea of an estimate is more about defining the variables so someone can play with the formula to suit their needs.
Is what I described above reasonable?
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To somebody somewhere, sure, to other people elsewhere, assuredly not.
Does that help?
There are a plenitude of construction and remodeling estimating books that factor in local area modification indices, such as R. S. Means and the HomeTech books. Find some, compare some, and get a meaningful answer.
Well, meaningful in the sense that there's data to back up the estimating numbers. The resultant number will still fall into the "if you can't get a real guy to do it for that number, it ain't a real number" category.
I _know_ that helps. I hope you realize that.
R
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Wouldn't it be better if he were an apprentice under a Painter for those ten years?
R
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RicodJour wrote the following:

Why does he have to be under a Craftsman? What if he he only has Ridgid or other non-Craftsman tools?
--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
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I think he'd learn to spill less if he worked above the craftsman.
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Prep is the larger expense. Any dumbass can smear paint around.
The cheap bidder most likely will skip the prep step and assure you that a self priming paint is a miracle thing.
The total estimate will be more than your think it should be.
We await you post regarding a failing new paint job.
Seriously, your time would be better spent getting estimates from local painters.
--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com
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Colbyt - others,
Care to share the key prep tasks how-to's?
I've undertaken powerwashing after a bath of bleach and tsp, then caulking with Alex Plus and priming with Zinsser 123. There is very little peeling, so not much to do there. For the larger gaps -- 1/8" or so I've tried to scrape away any old caulk, but in the case of smaller gaps I do my best to "rub-in" some new caulk and then prime overtop a few hours later.
Any suggestions for scaffolding to reach 22' at the peaks of 2 roof lines? I'm hoping if I can get my feet to 12' with scaffolding, I can ladder-up another 3' to reach the peaks which will take only a few minutes to paint, and then I'll be back down onto the scaffold platform. Any suggestions on accessing the higher parts of the dormers that I cannot reach from the porch roof itself? And finally -- how do I stand on a 45 degree roofline for one of the dormers? Do I just build-out a platform for the roof and drop it on cleats attached to the roof? How do painters deal with steep roofs?
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The quality of participants in these newgroups has gone downhill significantly over the years. It used to be 1 in 10 were nonsensical, insincere replies. Now 9 in 10 are. There seem to be a large numer of unemployed/under employed folks with little else to do than surf the groups and provide useless responses.
RicodJour -- Your language and false assmptions are disrepectful. I'm the homeowner. I did get bids. I am also considering my ability and time to do the job myself.
Colbyt -- I went to your "website" and read Exterior Painting-What Not to Do. Nice generalities. Let me summarize -- "Do a good job". There is no content here. No specific how-to's, no product recommendations based on first-hand experience, etc. I would not hire you as the "dumb***" painter. Applying paint is far more than "smearing it around".
alt.home.repair and rec.woodworking used to be my go-to places for thoughful, hands-on, experienced knowledge on a wide range of topics. Sad to say -- not so anymore.
.
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re: "The quality of participants in these newgroups has gone downhill significantly over the years."
pssst. "participants" include those asking the questions.
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On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:33:00 -0700 (PDT), kansascats

Probably mostly retired. Then as you get old you "forget," or your skills are outdated. They have caulks now I never heard of. You probably know the importance of prepping. I did a lot of painting with my brother, who was a pro housepainter, and learned most of what I know from him. But it was all oil then, so I can't tell you to go with a tapered hog bristle. I've done no exterior latex at all. No idea what paints are good now. It was always Ben Moore oil when I was painting outside, no exceptions. But I'll use some latex for my garage - probably next year. hehe.
Here's about all I'll say. Roll everywhere where you can and it makes sense. Never buy a brush bigger than 4" unless you have orangutan arms. A 2 1/2" taper was always the most used and handiest brush for both me and my brother. It won't wear out your arms. Always buy quality brushes. Always clean them up after use, and when using if they get loaded up. I never used scaffolds for painting. If you want a platform you can use a good plank and ladder jacks. I only used that rig for tuckpointing. For painting a ladder is easy to move and works well enough.
For a peak rest your ladder on wall below - never on an eave. I've painted peaks standing 2 steps down from a fully extended 40', but I was young and stupid. Could have been 4 steps down and used a stick. Use good ladders - we always used Werner type 2's, but if you're heavy you might need a 3. Check the Werner site. Just don't take any chances with ladders. If you foot you ladder right but going high makes you nervous, you might get a belt and lanyard. I bought and used one for papering a steep roof, even when I was young and stupid, but not too stupid. Don't rush anything - especially when working high. Be careful and good luck.
--Vic
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Good advice, Vic. One quibble - the lower number ladders are the stronger ones. A Type 2 is a homeowner's or light duty ladder, a Type 1 is stronger and stiffer, and a Type 1A is the highest rated commonly available ladder and rated to hold 300#. http://www.wernerladder.com/safety/performance.php
And you're right, there's been a lot of change in the painting business. Lots of spraying now, hopefully with backrolling.
R
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On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 17:08:08 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour

My brother was using mostly airless when he left the business. Too many college kids on competing crews. He was paying his guys 3 times more, but they were good when they could sober up enough to show up.
I wasn't real specific about my main point. You need good gear and safety. He has to invest in that, but it will pay off. We probably had the type 1's. They were stiff. Never used bouncing ladders. I bought a new 40' for my place. Cost me an arm and a leg. But I forget how much. Maybe +$300 in '76. It's long gone. I never looked at rental prices, but I suspect kansascats should buy a good 30' and he'll have it forever. He might rent jacks, plank and another 30' if he needs that for something and the rental won't kill him. Or maybe buy everything used for the right price. Homeowners don't usually paint a house only once, unless they're selling it. I'm too lazy now to even contemplate painting a big house. kansascats might become a fan of aluminum/vinyl. When you paint a bunch, that happens. As he'll find out.
--Vic
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Vic- appreciate the thoughts.
R - you actually got to some specifics, that I do appreciate.
I have thought about an extension ladder. Holding a paint can/bucket and waving my arm around at 16' above splat level just is not something I want to experience. Ok. I know, I know.. you think I'm insane for putting a ladder atop scaffolding. But wait, I said I needed to get 3' above the 12' scaffold platform. The peak is 22', I can reach 7', so I need 15' of lift. Either 5wx7lx6h or 30" x 72" scaffolding stacked 2 high gets me 12' off the ground on a pretty stable base after I tack on some outriggers. So now I'm looking at another 3' to reach that 22' peak. It's a 45 degree roof, so there is not much to paint at that height. 30 mins with a roller and my 2" Purdy and I should be done "up there" and get that ladder (or step stool, or whatever) out of the way. I don't think I will move fast enough to outrun my scaffolding. I'll work a 6' section, slide it over, work another 6' section, and so on. That 22' peak is above my driveway, so sliding the scaffold should be easy enough. The other side of the 22' is part over a deck and the other part over a flat surface with a sidewalk 3' from the wall. Then I can use the scaffold (maybe Perry type) to roll around the rest of the house where it's mostly 10' and a couple small sections that are 16'.
Yeah, Vic -- you have no idea how many times I rethought purchasing this masonite siding house. I had vinyl before. Hated it -- but not so much anymore. The original coat of Moorgard here has worn well -- 11 going on 12 years. So I'm hoping to get about 10 on my labor this go-around. Also, I like the idea of looking over every sq inch of the place. I get familiar with what's working and what's not. I can spot rot (3 so far and repaired), poor drainage, roof issues, etc. I'm not very experienced, but I'm getting some. In fact, once I get some appreciation for where the paint is wearing well, and not so well, I'm thinking maybe I can get 12-13 years from may labor if I do some annual upkeep.
The main challenges I have are: -- those two 22' peaks (gabel ends of 2 car garage) -- a dormer that sits on a 45 degree roof -- a dormer that has a 10' peak (but sits on low sloping roof) -- two gabel ends of the dormers that have about a 10' peak -- a fake chimney that is going to be a real pain
For the roof work, all I can come up with is build a platform the has a base that conforms to the roof slope and hold it in-place with a screwed-down cleat. That dormer that sits on the 45 degree roofline is going to be a bear, but it's not all that high, so maybe a platform right next to it will be all that I need.
So other than fooling around with that 22' peak it's about dealing with dormers ( yes, that and masonite siding are not at the tops of my list for why I'm living here).
I've spent a good 20 hours thusfar washing, caulking, and spot priming about 30% of the house and 75% of my other 24x36 building. I work at it 6-8 hours on the weekends and a couple hours in the evening. At this rate I should be done before it needs to be repainted ;-)
Now that I have 8 gals of Moorgard staring at me, I also need to figure out how to spread this stuff. It's thick. I did a quick roller test and did not like the results. It did not spread as smoothly as I was hoping.
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Cry me a river, chief. You started with a wacky fishing expedition asking an unanswerable question about pricing without providing any useful information at all, and now you're telling us in advance how you're planning on killing yourself. Pardon me if I don't show you the respect you think you reserve, but you have gone about this in a very, very bizarre way.
You're talking about scaffolding and putting a ladder on top of scaffolding. That's beyond dumb, and well into the I-want-to-die territory. You want to paint something 22' up...? Umm, hello!, any extension ladder will get you that high. Get one of those U-shaped standoff attachments with the rubber boots, and you're good to go.
Painter's don't erect scaffolding unless it is on some commercial job over a sidewalk or something. House painting moves too fast and there's no point taking the time to set up scaffolding.
Instead of telling us what you will be doing and asking a specific question based on the initial bad decision, ask the questions up front. It's not asking a lot of you - really.
BTW, I am totally sincere in my reply that I think you will kill yourself if you insist on working off of a ladder on a scaffold. Make sure your insurance is up to date, and put plastic down so you don't leave a mess when you hit.
R
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Red -- I'm looking into pump jacks but don't quite see the advantage for my case. A perry type scaffold will help me reach most of the 9' walls. If 2 of those stacked and with some solid outriggers get me to 12' then I can reach most of the others except as I noted in my last post -- the 22' garage gabel ends and part of the dormers. Any suggestions for setting up a level platform on a roof? Most of my roof is a very low slope covering a porch. Once section is 45 degrees with a dormer that needs to be painted. I can probably use a ladder on the low slope with a cleat on the roof. The crazy idea is to put a small ladder atop the 12' perry scaffold to get another 3' above the scaffold. I don't like the "sound" of it either. And more than likely when I"m 12' off the ground standing on a 30" x 72" platform the idea of going any higher is going to fade.
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