Experiment removing brown toilet bowl stains with various acids

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On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 09:11:21 -0400 dadiOH wrote:

Agreed. That is a stellar presentation. Very nice.
I've used both MS Paint & IrfanView on Windows; but, I must suggest that everyone try texting and arrowing with Paint.NET before you conclude anything about any other program. Circle drawing is just OK with Paint.NET.
Those three things are really what decides what freeware is "best" for basic editing of DIY-style screenshots & photos: - Texting (there should never be a need to draw a box!) - Arrows (they should be drawn in a single point-&-click sequence!) - Circles (they should be easy to point-and-click create)
Given those three extremely common requirements, it's sad (and surprising), that almost all freeware editing programs fall flat on their faces, when it comes to these three simple tasks.
You'll NEVER find another program that does curved arrows better and easier than does Paint.NET (whether solid or dashed) - and - you'll also find that the texting in MS Paint is exactly like it should be (i.e., no need to estimate the size & shape to sweep out a box!). The drawing of circles is pretty easy but nothing special.
Unfortunately, the best I could find on Linux for the same extremely common tasks are atrocious in comparison. In Kolourpaint, you have to estimate & sweep out a box to text; and in Kolourpaint you have to manually draw the arrows, then curve then, then create your own arrowheads from scratch ... and ... you can just forget about making dashed arrows. As with Paint.NET on Windows, Kolourpaint on Linux drawing of circles is pretty easy but nothing special.
As always, if there WAS a freeware editing program that did all three of those extremely common tasks well, that would be the program I'd consider best - and certainly - it would be the program I'd use and recommend.
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Danny D. wrote:

Thanks. ____________

I did d/l it a day or two ago and look forward to trying it. ______________

I find the box useful inasmuch as I can then center words and lines within a given area.
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dadiOH
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On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 09:04:41 -0400 dadiOH wrote:

Nothing wrong with MS Paint, but the collage (or is it a montage?) also required texting, circling, and arrowing - which is problematic in most programs.
IMHO, on Windows, nothing does curved arrows easier (or better) than Paint.NET; and, as you noted, nothing crops easier than IrfanView.
But, the choice of freeware depends on which program does the sum total of the needed tasks easiest and best.
Unfortunately, I've never found ONE program (on either Windows or Linux) that does the five basic DIY-editing tasks:
Easy stuff like cropping, texting, rotating, naming, & format conversion; plus, the harder stuff like circling and arrowing & canvas enlargement.
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On Sat, 13 Apr 2013 17:34:02 -0700 Oren wrote:

Oren,
I got carried away in the prior reply; so I'll directly answer. I used a combination of Imagemagick & Kolourpaint on Linux to create the DIY montages above.
1. Imagemagick to resize the photos to similar sizes. 2. Imagemagick to slap similar-sized photos together. 3. Kolourpaint to hand craft the more complex arrangements. 4. And, Kolorpaint to text, circle, & arrow the results.
Had I been on Windows, I would have used: 1. Irfanview to resize the photos to similar sizes. 2. Irfanview to slap similar-sized photos together. 3. Paint.NET to make the more complex arrangements. 4. And, Paint.NET to text, circle, & arrow the results.
IMHO, there is no single freeware program on either platform, which will perform all the tasks necessary to assemble and annotate a typical task-oriented photo scenario such as is shown in the better amateur do-it-yourself (DIY) project writeups.
PS: I'm not sure what the difference is between a collage and a montage, so, I used the word "montage" to indicate an assemblage of photos & screenshots intended to help in explaining how to do something, in a single resulting image.
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I shoudl have said I'm a Paint.net fan.
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On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 09:57:32 -0700 snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net wrote:

I am too. I 'wish' Linux had as good a tool as Paint.NET for annotating DIY photos!
Alas, the best I can find on Linux is KolourPaint.
Here's a summary collage of how to remove brownish deposits (made with KolourPaint):

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On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 16:01:13 -0700 Oren wrote:

You might like the panorama command in Irfanview: http://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-Panorama-Image-Using-IrfanView
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Oren wrote:

In Irfanview? Draw a box then Ctrl + T
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my workaround for text is to open with irfanview and save as .bmp open in PAINT and add text, marks, etc save. open again in Irfanview and save as .jpg
It's a workaround.
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On Tue, 16 Apr 2013 10:55:04 -0700 Oren wrote:

I would NOT add text with Irfanview. Use Paint.NET. Muuuuuch easier & more intuitive.
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Danny D. posted Sat, 20 Apr 2013 11:58:17 +0000 (UTC)

To defend IV, it is rather viewer with added simple editing capabilities.
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On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 14:08:39 +0200 Poutnik wrote:

I do agree that IrfanView is absolutely fantastic as the best picture "viewer" on the PC, bar none. Mainly it's fast. Really really really fast. Twice as fast as most programs, and ten times faster than a lot of them.
Even though IrfanView is only a "viewer", we all know IV also does CROPPING wonderfully (click, click, crop). It converts to various formats nicely (e.g., JPEG -> GIF); and IrfanView is great with batch renamin and resizing operations (which aren't so easy on the Windows operating system elsewise).
However, when it comes to TEXTING, drawing CIRCLES, and especially curved ARROWs, IrfanView stinks. For that, I'd suggest Paint.NET ...
The funny thing is that TEXTING is done wrong on almost all picture editing programs in that they force you to choose the area BEFORE you type a single character!
What's inexplicable about that is there is no need for that. With Paint.NET, you simply type. No need to choose any area whatsoever.
Likewise, arrows are almost atrocious how they're handled on most picture-editing programs. With most, all you can do is manually draw a curve and then manually draw an arrowhead and you can just about forget doing dashed lines.
With Paint.NET, it's all done for you. You just draw the arrow point 1, and then point 2, and it's done for you. (You've pre-selected the type of arrow, direction, arrowhead, dashes, color, etc., as the default.)
On the other hand, drawing circles and boxes around things is relatively easy in most programs, but heaven forbid trying to do it in something powerful like The Gimp. You'll go crazy. Sure, it 'can' be done; but you'd die trying.
Irfanview isn't too bad with drawing circles, but, since you NEED paint.net for the arrows and text, you may as well draw the circles there.
In summary, IrfanView is a fantastic picture-viewing program, which is fast and simple and powerful ... but it stinks for the basic annotation of DIY-style photos. For for that, Paint.NET is the best (although others will work too).
Note: This is all on Windows. For Linux, the corresponding best DIY-photo editing program is the combination of ImageMagick for batch operations, and Kolourpaint for the manual texting, arrowing, and circling of objects.
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On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 22:12:17 +0000 Danny D. wrote:

For the record, today I needed to reproduce a firefox bug on both WinXP and on Linux, so, I created essentially the same screenshot on each platform:
Windows:
Linux:

OBSERVATION: I haven't been on Windows for a while, so, I had forgotten what a fantastic dream Paint.net was in terms of usability (as compared to what exists on Linux) in performing the three basic screenshot annotation tasks of: (a) texting (you just click & type ... that's it!) (b) circling (you just click & sweep ... that's it!) (c) arrowing (you just click & click ... that's it!)
In comparison the critical annotation triad on Linux was kludgey at best. (a) texting (you have to pre-select the text area ... yuck) (b) circling (you just click and sweep ... so this is good) (c) arrowing (all manual ... especially dashes, curves & heads)
Note: It's amazing that, on Linux, there isn't a single decent freeware program for these three simple tasks that even comes close to comparing to what exists on Windows - and - on Windows, it's amazing that only one program does all three tasks correctly (i.e., efficiently).
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On 2013.04.21 10:50 , Danny D. wrote:

Please stop x-posting your adventures to rec.photo.digital. At worst take this to a graphics/design NG. But it really has no place here.
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On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 21:25:27 +0000 Danny D. wrote:

One interesting result I should mention is that I've repeated the acid test on a few toilet bowls since opening this thread, and, one thing that is clear about the 'brown' deposits is that the pool acid dissolves them - but - the pool bleach merely turns them white.
So, I think they're mineral deposits which have, for whatever reason, taken on a brown hue.
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