Electrical connection for generator (in fuse box) - info, docs or links wanted

[John Gilmer]

Our local utility (Dominion, Virginia) is marketing a switch that has a special connector that sits between the meter and the meter base. The "switch box" is mounted on the wall within reach of the cord connector (about 6').

"They" want $995 for it "installed." Since installation just means removing and replacing the meter and hanging up the box, I judge they price that hardware at $700+.

BUT, it's a neat solution to the problem.

In the same bill (they "market" when they send the monthly bill) "they" were selling gas generators for several times what you would pay for the same capacity at, say, Wal-Mart.

IMO, if you can get it, the "meter" base is the best solution. I don't have technical details (for example, will the switch have a remote control option or will it permit remote monitoring of whether the utility power has been restored) but the basic idea is sound and shows that the utility is addressing the problem in a realistic manner.

[RBM]

You need to get an interlocking device that would only allow the generator feed or the utility company feed, but not both at the same time , power the panel. I know Square D makes them, but I'm not sure about other companies

[willshak]

on 6/8/2007 7:47 AM Apropos said the following:

Even I, a one-time part-time house builder who has personally run many new circuits in my house, am not so stupid as to attempt this myself. Some things you don't f__k with if you have to ask for directions.

[Apropos]

Anyone know of any good guides showing how to hook up a fuse box to accept a generator? I want to hook up a 4-wire, 220v 30A connection straight into the box to power the whole home (obviously not everything in it, just what I choose to turn on).

There should be some websites or documents out there which show what to do. I know much of what needs to be done, I just need to know the specifics.

[terry]

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With apologies if you are more knowledgeable than it appears to me from the initial posting above.

Presuming you are talking about the situation where you hook up a generator for use during an extensive failure of the commercial power?

Reading this forum and elsewhere I have gathered that it is illegal (In almost all jurisdictions) because it it is unsafe, to hook up a standby generator WITHOUT COMPLETELY DISCONNECTING ANY CONNECTION TO THE EXTERNAL ELECTRIC UTILITY SUPPLY.

This means that the electrical service to your residence must be reconfigured with a 'changeover switch' or equivalent interlocked arrangement (presumably between the utility meter and your existing main circuit breaker) so that is is impossible for the generator and the external supply to be connected together at the same time.

Just to expand on that requirement a little; the danger is to workers on the power supply lines who might receive voltage/s back from your generator while working, to repair a fault or upgrade equipment.

If, God forbid, a death or injury occurred, due to some unauthorized hook-up, the householder could be liable?

Others with greater skill and knowledge on this news group will no doubt comment about the technical details.

[terry]

PS. In other words you can't just depend on throwing the main circuit breaker 'off' then having hooked it 'start up the generator'.

It would work but not safe.

[Apropos]

Well, sometimes you pretty much know how but you prefer to see it spelled out and drawn out ;-)

At any rate, do you know anywhere which shows the procedure to hook up a generator feed IN to the fuse box, such that I can disconnect via the main, from the local utility?

It really doesn't seem that complicated. It's just the kind of thing you just don't want to get WRONG ... LOL

[George]

But your idea is already wrong and not according to any code or standard practice.

You need an interlocking device (transfer switch) to insure that the mains and generator can never be connected.

[Toller]

I will second (or third) everyone else's advice. If you need to be told how to do this, you shouldn't be doing it. Quick reality check; do you break just the hots, or also the grounds and neutral? You don't know, do you. Then leave it alone.

If you install an new circuit incorrectly, it probably just won't work. If you do this wrong someone could die. In any event, you are probably better off with a simple commercial transfer switch. Mine will power 6 circuits; and if you do it wrong, it just won't work.

(Sure, you could do a circuit or TS wrong so it is dangerous, but you would almost have to try.) (Answer to QRC, it depends on the generator.)

[Alphonse Q Muthafuyer]

"the utility is addressing the problem in a realistic manner." ???

Please forgive me. I can't resist ...

"You should not be overly alarmed to find that you are brainwashed. We are all brainwashed ..."

If your public service commission allows your utility to hustle bucks on such utilitys service failures, perhaps neither the psc nor such utility is addressing the basic and essential problem at all.

How much will such utility make if there are only 2 outages per year (about all that should be allowed)? How much will they make if there are 14 or 23 outages? Can you imagine a scenario in which the utilitys profit targets are dependent on the number of outages (above "normal") per year?

Beware, Al

"The monkey and the baboon was playing 7-up. The monkey won the money but he scared to pick it up. The monkey stumbled, mama. The baboon fell. The monkey grab the money and he run like hell!" - from "Dirty Motherfuyer", Roosevelt Sykes, around 1935

[zxcvbob]

If it's really an emergency (longterm power outage), you break the seal on the meter box and remove the meter. Now you are disconnected from the grid and can do whatever you need to do (like carefully backfeed a welder or range or dryer outlet). The power company will understand when you call them to reseal the meter.

It would be safer to install a recessed-male plug somewhere instead of using a dryer outlet. There's a reason double male cords are called "suicide cords".

If it's just a short-term power outage, Just use extension cords and don't try to connect the gen to the house wiring.

Bob

[jJim McLaughlin]

Except that your idea of disconecting from the grid by manually tripping the "MAIN" to off when you want to use the generator violates code, is damn dangerous and may kill a power company worker, exposes you to huge civil liability, is industrial strength STOOPID and is not, at all, apropos.

[bejay]

What you need ( and I think is required) is an automatic transfer switch. When the loss of utility power is detected, the switch will automatically disconnect the utility power and switch over to the generator. The switch usually requires a control module for detecting the change in voltage. Companies such as ASCO build switche modules. They ain't cheap and with good reason. It has to be fool proof for many of the reasons stated.

[bejay]

What you need ( and I think is required) is an automatic transfer switch. When the loss of utility power is detected, the switch will automatically disconnect the utility power and switch over to the generator. The switch usually requires a control module for detecting the change in voltage. Companies such as ASCO build switche modules. They ain't cheap and with good reason. It has to be fool proof for many of the reasons stated.

[dpb]

Transfer switch, yes; _automatic_ no.

Manual is perfectly adequate and rarely needed for anything other than convenience, certainly, for residential application(s).

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[Doug Miller]

He needs a transfer switch -- but not necessarily an automatic one. A manual transfer switch will work just fine.

[Dave Martindale]

But you don't really want the male plug connected to a normal breaker in the panel, either, because it would become live with exposed hot metal parts if someone turned the breaker on by accident when the panel was under utility power. That's at least as suicidal.

The safe way to do this is with the male plug connected to one input of a transfer switch that is upstream of the main panel. The transfer switch avoids any possibility of backfeeding, and it also means that the male plug can never be powered from the utility. It can only receive power from the generator, and pass it along to the main panel if the transfer switch is set appropriately.

Dave

[zxcvbob]

Excellent point. Thanks.

Bob

[Member, Takoma Park Volunteer]

George That is not correct. At least two manufacturers make interlock devices that are in fact add ons to the main distribution panel for the home. Just like the separate transfer switches these breaker interlock kits will prevent the generator supply from connecting with the outside lines. Since these interlock kits are laboratory listed they are in fact in accordance with the National Electric Code.

[Member, Takoma Park Volunteer]

The interlock kits manufactured by Square D and Cutler Hammer both work by tripping the main breaker to the off position manually, Moving the interlock manually, and closing the generators isolating breaker manually. These are listed devices so what are you on about.