DW incomplete drain

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Wasn't this just addressed? Can't find.
My DW has recently started leaving pool of icky water. ran hand around but did not find physical obstacles. Pool is still confined to within mesh "drain basket"
Went on-line and found step-by-step, but I am not competent to do. Also tough $$$ to hire plumber for what any idiot (supposedly) could do.
This is small household that does not abuse appliances. One of the step-by-steps mentioned disposal. I think we can rule out, since hardly use.
WILL THIS KEEP GETTING WORSE If so, how long does it take to get to crisis stage?
TIA
HB
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Higgs Boson wrote:

Hi, You did not say how old the DW is.
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On Sunday, July 27, 2014 11:41:44 AM UTC-7, Tony Hwang wrote:

d but did not find physical obstacles. Pool is still confined to within mes h "drain basket"

tough $$$ to hire plumber for what any idiot (supposedly) could do.

p-by-steps mentioned disposal. I think we can rule out, since hardly use.

isis stage?

Sorry - slipped what's left of my mind.
DW is about 2 years old. No previous problem. Whirlpool, toward the low en d?? Total with installation under $700. Has those *(*&$^ cutlery trays in door.
(Just venting - with 20-20 hindsight - stupid decision: Background: Previo us DW was a KitchenAid TANK that never gave me trouble over 13 years until hot water stopped entering. Thought plumber would be too expensive; hand-w ashed dishes for 4 years; mouse took up residence; couldn't get rid of it; finally had somebody take DW out; mouse was terminated with extreme prejudi ce; found out whole problem had been one lousy hose perforated by mouse bit es!!!! Could have lasted forever w/hose replacement!!!!
HB
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On 7/27/2014 6:44 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

toward the low end?? Total with installation under $700.
Has those *(*&$^ cutlery trays in door.

Background: Previous DW was a KitchenAid TANK that never
gave me trouble over 13 years until hot water stopped
entering. Thought plumber would be too expensive;
hand-washed dishes for 4 years; mouse took up residence;
couldn't get rid of it; finally had somebody take DW out;
mouse was terminated with extreme prejudice; found out
whole problem had been one lousy hose perforated by mouse
bites!!!! Could have lasted forever w/hose replacement!!!!

My dad had similar moment, I'm sworn to secrecy. The guys pulling out our 30 year old clothes washing machine. There is a pulley and belt laying on the floor. Dad said to the guys to nevermind, and keep it moving. Don't tell Mom, please.
--
.
Christopher A. Young
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On Sunday, July 27, 2014 2:02:26 PM UTC-4, Higgs Boson wrote:

First thing I'd do is start a wash cycle, let if fill up, start to run, then reset it. Or just let it run and catch it when it goes to pump out. Listening at the disposal you should be able to tell if it's pumping out at a reasonable rate, make sure it's not backing up in the disposal, etc. If it's just a trickle, then you know it's likely a clogged hose, pump, clogged screen, etc.
It's not something I'd want to let go. If dirty water is left each time it tries to empty, that's what's going to be on your rinsed dishes.
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On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 11:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson

It sounds like it does drain most of the water, right?
What I did was take off the kick panel, disconnect the drain hose (Whirlpool puts all this stuff in front so its not necessary to move the DW itself) and run it a little to see if water is pumped out. It definitely was.
Then I tried to snake out the hose leading to the drain under the sink. I could get the first foot but didnt' think I was doing well on the rest, so, disgusting as it might be, I put my mouth on the hose and blew, and it seemed fine to me. No resistance to my blowing. A partial clog, which still let me blow, would I think still allow the pump to expel the water. I was careful not to inhale and it really wasn't so disgusting once I was done.
That left the vacuum break, which I think you probably have. It's a chrome colored cap the size of a large spool of thread, on the sink. The chrome cap pulls right off and then something unscrews, and then I almost missed it but right in front of me was the small bone of a chicken's leg. Compared to the ratio between the tibia and the fibula in people, this bone is really thin, thinner than a toothpick for most of its length. It somehow made it from the dishwasther through the pump and the hose and was interferign with a valve? or something in the vacuum break. Once I took it out, everything was fine.
I don't really clean my dishes before I put them in the DW. OTOH, only I live here and I don't use the DW much. Still this was the only problem in in 30 years, I would look in the vacuum break first, because it's so easy to take apart and and put back together if you were paying attention. If that's not it, you go step by step like I did.
If someone leaves NYC for California and he doesn't get there and you know where he planned to spend each night, to check with each place until you find out how far he got and how far he didn't get. Same with pumped water. Same with almost every mechanical repair.
Oh, among other things, I had a plastic salad bowl in the DW during my testing. I didn't just test it once like in the story above, but maybe 20 times I ran it through the same part of the cycle (an advantage of a machine with a cycle knob) and each time the built-in heater heated the water more, and by the time I was done, I found that the plastic salad bowl had bent (still usable but not stackable anymore) , something that was washed 2 dozen times before with no damage. . Because I made t he water so hot, it melted the plastic. Don't do that.
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On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 11:02:26 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson

It may get worse, but will probably never overflow as there is a float switch to turn the water off.
Check the hose for kinks. Check the hose and the drain valve for obstructions. I had the same problem when a cherry pit could not pass the drain valve.
Appliance repair guy is going to get $75 to $100 to walk through the door so do some preliminary checking first.
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On 7/27/2014 6:30 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Is her dish washer hooked up to Mickey's sump pump that doesn't drain completely?
(ha, ha....)
--
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On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 18:35:54 -0400, Stormin Mormon

That's a good idea. I could run the hose through the floor and over the laundry room ceiling. Wouldn't have to worry about chicken bones clogging the sump pump pipes. Much too big.
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On Wednesday, July 30, 2014 1:38:13 PM UTC-7, micky wrote:

oor so do some preliminary checking first.
Update: Whole situation unpredictable. I ran a regular load and there WAS no residual water in basket! Thought I'm home free. But next load, back to incomplete drain. I read somewhere (here?) to run an extra drain cycle. I did it a few times before but didn't help. Now it does help running extr a drain cycle. Go figure!
I was ready to spring for a plumber, but a tough friend of mine said that s he got the computer company to extend the warranty on her busted rig. She has brass cojones, excuse the expression. Suggested that I make a loud fus s at a time when lots of customers were watching.
So I was all set to face up to the DW company but guess what -- they had so ld to another company. Which might or might not be thrilled, even if I mad e a scene, to bail out their predecessor. Since DW sometimes drains; sometimes doesn't until an extra drain cycle is run, does that tell any more about where to attack?
TIA
HB
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On 8/1/2014 9:08 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

If it does not drain on a single drain cycles does it partially drain? Sounds that way from what you've said. If so, that could indicate a partially blocked drain hose and it just needs more time to push all the water out.
What have uou tried so far? Did you remove and check the drain hose? Drain valve?
BTW. you don't want a plumber, you want an appliance repair person or a handyman that can check the hose.
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On Friday, August 1, 2014 6:33:09 PM UTC-7, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Drains most of the way. Leaves about 1-2 " in basket. Encouraged by your suggestion. Will continue "double-draining" and hope any blockage that might exist will get pushed out.
Surprised because we carefully scrape dishes before stacking, just to avoid clogging. Which brings up another point that I never understood:
Why do newer high-end ? DWs practically BEG you to not scrape before loading? Have they engineered their product to work BETTER w/gunk on dishes? Or is it just a sales pitch to lazy people?


Zip. Bottom panel so tiny -- about 2" high -- me so inept, put off action. Was going to post a picture of that model to get feedback, but now will wait a few cycles to see if it clears itself.

OK, if it gets to that point, I'll know whom to call.
Appreciate help.
HB
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On 8/2/2014 12:18 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

Easy to miss a piece of plastic wrap or a label from fruit. My block was a cherry pit.

Supposedly the detergents are so strong, if not working on dirt they will work on the surface of some dishware. I've not noticed.
We got a sample of Cascade Platinum with our DW bought last December. That stuff is incredible and makes everything bright and shiny. Much better than the Cascade gel we were using.

You're welcome, hope it works out for you'
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We usually just rinse plates and glasses and the dishwasher cleans them fine.
However, I always have to scrub our pots and pans clean before putting them in them in the dishwasher. Despite the advertising hype, even the extended "pot scrubber" mode won't touch food that has been cooked on the pan or baked on a dish. Basically, the dishwasher is just rinsing the pan I already cleaned. :)
When we built our house in 2004, we bought a fairly low end dishwasher (don't remember the make). It was slightly noisy, but it cleaned well and the racks were very accomodating for a variety of dishes.
Our first dishwasher died last year, so we "splurged" on a newer high end model that cost almost twice as much. It is quieter, but doesn't clean as well and takes much longer to run through a full cycle. We specifically chose this model because the racks looked like they would accomodate dishes the best. Unfortunately, nothing seems to fit right. It has an adjustable upper rack, but neither level works very well. On the lower setting pans and plates won't fit on the bottom rack. On the upper setting, tall glasses only fit in one spot or the rack won't close. We have adapted over time, but it's a stupid design.
Anthony Watson www.mountainsoftware.com www.watsondiy.com
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Have you checked how long the pump runs over a number of regular cycles, an d over the special cycle? Maybe the timer is not runniing the pump long en ough. Take the strainer out of the sink and see how long water is flowing vs how long you hear the pump running. Is the time different for when it d rains completely and wwhen it does not drain completely?
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On Saturday, August 2, 2014 1:55:50 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net wrote:

and over the special cycle? Maybe the timer is not runniing the pump long enough. Take the strainer out of the sink and see how long water is flowin g vs how long you hear the pump running. Is the time different for when it drains completely and wwhen it does not drain completely?
I suggested similar along those lines on day 1. Listen to what happens at the unit and the water going into the disposal when it's pumping out. Strong stream that stops when the pump does? Poor flow, where the pump can't push the water out in time?
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On Saturday, August 2, 2014 1:14:07 PM UTC-7, trader_4 wrote:
:

, and over the special cycle? Maybe the timer is not runniing the pump lon g enough. Take the strainer out of the sink and see how long water is flow ing vs how long you hear the pump running. Is the time different for when it drains completely and wwhen it does not drain completely?

You're right! Mea culpa, both of you! Next load, I will arrange to stay ne ar DW to check out above.
Many thanks
HB
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On Saturday, August 2, 2014 3:37:42 PM UTC-7, Higgs Boson wrote:

te:

es, and over the special cycle? Maybe the timer is not runniing the pump l ong enough. Take the strainer out of the sink and see how long water is fl owing vs how long you hear the pump running. Is the time different for whe n it drains completely and wwhen it does not drain completely?

.

Shone flashlight in & listened: Stream stopped when pump did; but how tell if stream was "strong"? Kept flowing was all I could see.
Poor flow, where the pump can't push the water out in time?
How can I tell if "in time"? All water was not evacuated from basket; ano ther drain cycle did it. Worried that this might get worse. Wasn't like t hat before -- or -- (awful thought!) was it, and I didn't notice?? Possible ?
I did prepare to confront merchant, but found they had sold to another co. Dunno what good it would do to make big public fuss. Sigh!
New item: Dishes don't seem "clean" as before. Hard to qualify electronica lly! Could it be type of detergent"pillows" being used? Better detergent? Reco mmendations?
TIA
HB

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On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 1:43:49 PM UTC-7, Higgs Boson wrote:

rote:

cles, and over the special cycle? Maybe the timer is not runniing the pump long enough. Take the strainer out of the sink and see how long water is flowing vs how long you hear the pump running. Is the time different for w hen it drains completely and wwhen it does not drain completely?

ns at the unit and the water going into the disposal when it's pumping out. Strong stream that stops when the pump does?

l if stream was "strong"? Kept flowing was all I could see.

nother drain cycle did it. Worried that this might get worse. Wasn't like that before -- or -- (awful thought!) was it, and I didn't notice?? Possib le?
Just checking in re: flow. Earlier kind poster asked if it was a "strong s tream". How identify "strong" ? Really gushes rather then flows? I have n o base because I never looked in the past.
Recently have used "cancel/drain" to evacuate all water. As noted earlier, flow stops when pump stops. Sometimes I have had to do it 2x.
Thinking maybe this indicates pump is "weak". IOW, water is eventually eva cuated but takes a few cancel/drains.
Water observed flowing does not look "dirty".
If it IS pump, (a) is it an expensive repair (b) is it worth it (c) if not fixed, will it get worse
If not pump, then what?
TIA
(Oren, you commented elsewhere that I ask for help and then do not acknowle dge. Quite unfair!)
HB

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On 8/12/2014 6:19 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

How old is the machine and how good overall is it? I'd guess that the repair is going to be in the $200 range. Worth it? You may get a better diagnostic though.
New machine is $500 to $2000. My KA was about $1600 but does a fantastic job.
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