Does soldering violate electrical codes?


Awl --
Does soldering #12 or #14 wires before placing a wire nut on them violate any codes? Can soldering + electrical tape (or bug tape) *substitute* for a wire nut? Ditto with thicker wires and "bugs".
tia
--

EA



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On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:35:43 -0500, "Existential Angst"

Not permitted, and for good reason. In the event of a wire getting hot from a malfunction, the solder may melt and drip somewhere BAD.
It is likewise not sufficient for the mechanical integrety aspect of the connection.
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On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:54:56 -0500, salty wrote:

Wonder* what temperatures cable insulation, electrical tape, the plastic used in wire nuts etc. fails at? I think typical solder melting point is something like 370F - if things are running that hot it wouldn't surprise me if something else doesn't give out first...
* I tried googling quickly, but got lost in a minefield of patent applications (and some stupid built-in viewer on 3M's site which killed my browser and made me give up :-)
cheers
Jules
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Existential Angst wrote:

Soldering is generally allowed (NEC 110.14). Connections have to be "spliced or joined to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered." Generally that means twisting #12 and #14 wires.
"Friction" tape used to be used for soldered connections, and may be better than plastic electrical tape. Sharp edges tend to poke out through plastic tape. No idea what "bug tape" is.
I wouldn't use a wire nut on a soldered connection - it is not what they are designed for (and instructions do not say to solder the wire, so they are not UL listed for that use).
I wouldn't solder a connection and can't think of where it would be a good idea (except K&T).
There are places where solder is not allowed. The one that comes to mind is for a "grounding electrode conductor".
--
bud--

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Bug tape is is not a tape per se but rather a black thick tape-like wrap that molds around sharp edges, etc. When that is completed around a bug (compression connector? That "U" with a nut....), the thing is then wrapped in elecrical tape. A bitch to undo. On thick wire, can be as big a small fist.

What is K&T?
--
EA


>
> There are places where solder is not allowed. The one that comes to mind
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Existential Angst wrote:

I would call that rubber tape. Some of it is quite thick. And probably all self vulcanizing, so it sticks itself.
I would call the "bug" a "split bolt connector".

Knob and tube
--
bud--


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wrote:

what is google?
Try searching for "K&T wire nut"
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wrote:

It's the type of wiring that anyone who is anyone would want...
http://www.nachi.org/images09/spliced.jpg
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For sure it does.
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On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:35:43 -0500, "Existential Angst"

Bud is right and cited the appropriate code language. As long as the connection is mechanically sound you can solder it and insulate with tape. Twisting is generally considered secure but if you are old school you would use a western union splice.
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/splices.jpg
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Nice pics. In my 1920's house, some of the splices they twisted, bent half the twist back, and then soldered. And *then* wire-nutted! And **then**, on some, taped the skirt of the wire nut.... goodgawd.... Strange that they then got 6 out of 6 Edison circuits wrong..... Can't wait to fix those.
--
EA




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wrote:

All of that extra stuff was obviously meant to keep the electricity from leaking out. There's nothing worse than coming home to find a pool of electrons has leaked onto your floor and ruined the carpet.
Are you considering soldering wires? If so, why? It makes working on the wires a pain and doesn't add any security - just wastes time.
R
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On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:05:15 -0500, "Existential Angst"

Before WWII soldering was the accepted trade practice. That is why old wire was tinned.
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(Existential Angst) writes:
| Strange that they then got 6 out of 6 Edison circuits wrong..... Can't wait | to fix those.
All 5 of the Edison circuits in my 1959 house were wrong as well. This seems like too much for chance; I think they misunderstood the layout of the fuse box.
                Dan Lanciani                 ddl@danlan.*com
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In typed:

It may or may not be allowed; the ONLY place to get a reliable answer from would be your local code enforcement office. When I lived in Chicago, it was legal there. It's legal here where i live now, too. But it's NOT legal in Ct, Ca, or in most of the southers states. Remember, the NEC is minimum requirements: Your local codes have the very last word as long as they don't violate the NEC. So, give the code office a call. They're almost always good guys, and you don't have to identify yourself.
HTH,
Twayne`
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wrote:

Soldering may or may not violate the most applicable codes but I don't know of any jurisdiction where soldering is required. I for one would be interested in knowing of anyplace where solder joints were required.
Jimmie
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On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:54:10 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE

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news.eternal-september.org wrote: ...

I don't know of any that do, but there's nothing that would keep a local code provision from being in contravention of NEC... :)
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Existential Angst wrote:

While helping a guy who couldn't find a real electrician that would touch the work, I found 3 light switches, one a two way, all mounted on a 2x4 nailed to the wall with all the wires coming out of the original single gang metal box in the wall. (looked real nice the their kitchen)
Turns out they used all that room to make one hell of a junction "area". I think it was 5 wires with about 3 wire nuts to combine one set of hots. There wasn't much room and the short wires had been bent too many times already, so I twisted then soldered them all together with 1 or 2 pigtails. There was so much more there that I don't remember it all, I did find and repair the disconnected mystery wires that went to a circuit for the outside lamp which hadn't worked for 25+ years. Anyway, yes I soldered the wires and made sure the circuit was on a 15 amp fuse. To keep the mess from cutting through the tape I used a large wire nut then taped over it. I even stuck it all inside the wall in a couple 2 gang boxes and got rid of the ever so safe 2x4 surface mount with bare wires showing. I didn't give a shit if soldering was code, I know I left there with the whole mess 100 times more safe than it was when I got there.
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