computer Surge Suppressor-protector question

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wrote:

As far as surge protection is concerned, any equipment that does not have a physical line switch turned off, or the power plug unplugged, is subject to voltage spikes and surges if not adequately protected by a surge arrester or dual conversion UPS.
Most motherboards today have the NIC built in - and WOL just needs to be enabled in BIOS. (and the line switch needs to be ON, and the power plugged in, and the port to WOL opened on the router)
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On 3/11/2011 2:06 PM, Bob Villa wrote:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Sleep-and-hibernation-frequently-asked-questions
Can you point me a little closer to where it says that?
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I don't see that, but they do use some power. Hybrid sleep though, allows the power to be cut.
Of all the power-saving states in Windows, hibernation uses the least amount of power. On a laptop, use hibernation when you know that you won't use your laptop for an extended period and won't have an opportunity to charge the battery during that time.
Hybrid sleep is designed primarily for desktop computers. Hybrid sleep is a combination of sleep and hibernate-it puts any open documents and programs in memory and on your hard disk, and then puts your computer into a low-power state so that you can quickly resume your work. That way, if a power failure occurs, Windows can restore your work from your hard disk. When hybrid sleep is turned on, putting your computer into sleep automatically puts your computer into hybrid sleep. Hybrid sleep is typically turned on by default on desktop computers.
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Where does it say..."you can then turn your power strip off" or "pull the plug". If it doesn't say...then it's not recommended. It does say, "That way, if a power failure occurs, Windows can restore your work from your hard disk".
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On 3/12/2011 9:51 AM, Bob Villa wrote:

You are loosing me. I asked where it gave the information about not to unplug it. You wrote "If it doesn't say...then it's not recommended." It doesn't tell me to put my monitor on top of a *black* desktop, so I'm doing wrong by doing that? It doesn't say which way to position the monitor, does it go toward me or away from me? Damn MS doesn't say, now I'm in a real bind. Common sense tells me that if you remove all external wires from the pc that might be hit by lighting, you will be much safer by making it very much more difficult for a lighting surge to damage it. Now I'm not saying I do that, but it would be safer that way. Uh, but that's not true because MS doesn't say it? Take a look at the subject line.
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If you look at the other replies, you're not alone. Many posters said the same thing, which is the link from MSFT does not say what Bob claims it does. It says absolutely nothing about recommending not to turn computers off.
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On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 11:23:33 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

Also, we seem to be talking about two things, Turn Off (win-key, u, u) and Unplug.
Bob is concentrating on Unplug.
For years I turned off my UPS after I turned off my computer, to save electricity. (The current UPS can't be turned off with my toes. And because the cord is short, I practically have to get down on teh floor.) Turning off the UPS is equivalent to unplugging the computer. It causes no problem, except that the computer relies on the CMOS battery to keep track of the time and BIOS settings. If wake-on is enabled, it stil won't work because the CMOS battery won't power it.
And people unplug their computers, sometimes for a long time, when they move to another home.
But if Hibernate is used and the UPS or, the Surge Suppressor is turned off, or the computer itself is unplugged, the previous session will still start up where the user left off**.
**I've been wondering, If I install more memory while the computer is in hibernate, will Windows recognize and use the added memory? I know if you plug in a USB device while in Hibernate, Windows will find it, as if you plugged it in just after it finished coming out of Hibernate.
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Where in that MSFT link does it say that? I don't see it.
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Bob Villa wrote:

Hibernation DOES turn off the computer. By turn off, I mean removes power in exactly the same way as "powering down" the computer. The power consumption difference between hibernation and shut-down is zero; they are identical in this regard.
Now "powering down," whether by front-panel switch or by Hibernation, does not remove all power from the computer. The computer's power supply does maintain a trickle voltage to maintain the internal clock (in case the battery fails) or, in some cases, wake-on-lan.
You can completely "power-down" the computer by flipping the switch on the computer's power supply - if it has one - on the back of the case.
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My vote for the best answer. Also, even if the power was completely disconnected via switch in the PC, a surge of sufficient voltage could still arc across some wiring point in the PC.
Also, whether the surge protector is turned on or not has no effect on it's surge protection for surges originating on the AC lines. As long as it's connected the MOVs are still there between the line and PC whether the surge protector is on or not. The surge protector uses neglible power, only enough to light the LED indicators.
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

You bring up another point: MOVs. MOVs are like reverse fuses - they are normally open until they see a surge, then they short the surge to ground. Problem is, like fuses, they're only good once (or maybe a few times). Then they no longer work and the strip passes the surge straight on through.
Surge protection strips that use sophisticated electronics continue to work, no matter how many surges they encounter.
So how can you tell which you have? If the strip cost in the neighborhood of five bucks, it's the (almost) worthless MOV kind. If it cost $50.00 or more, it's probably the electronic kind.
An all-round better solution is a "Whole-House" surge protector. These cost $50-75 and attach at the circuit breaker box (if your hand fits a screwdriver, you can install one). Moreover, they have little light(s) to tell you they are working.
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"Whole-House" is definitely not the answer. A UPS with surge suppression would be a better one. Any high-current device switching on or off and going through a common conduit or routed near to the supply circuit of a PC would induce a surge into that circuit. Making "Whole-House" suppression pointless.
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On 3/12/2011 4:19 PM, Bob Villa wrote:

I read somewhere about studies done that showed the best practice was to cascade surge protection starting where the power enters a structure. Then at distribution panels to protection at individual pieces of gear. The power company here offers a unit that plugs into the meter socket and the meter plugs into the surge protector. Take a look at page 7 of the pdf from the link below:
http://www.apsllc.net/Cooper%20Power/Line/Aug97.pdf
TDD
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wrote:

That is all well and good if it is designed from the construction start...but, I assume the discussion here is about a typical home or office.
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On 3/13/2011 7:25 AM, Bob Villa wrote:

The meter socket surge arrester can be installed on any home or office electrical service. Pull the meter, plug in the unit where the meter goes then plug the meter into the surge arrester. At the electrical panel, a new type of surge arrester that plugs into an available two pole breaker slot is simple to install. You then plug your computer gear into your UPS or surge arrester power strip. It's all plug in and easy to do. :-)
TDD
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wrote:

Any idea what this would cost?
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On 3/13/2011 8:19 AM, Bob Villa wrote:

I don't really know, the power company in this area handles/leases the meter socket protection but the plug in surge arresters can be obtained from the local electrical supplier or ordered online. Of course every retailer seems to sell power strips and little UPS systems. :-)
http://www.stopsurges.com/BREAKER-TYPE-SURGE-PROTECTOR_c9.htm
TDD
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On 3/13/2011 8:39 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Well almost. I couldn't use the meter socket since I have a current transformer set up. The electric I use doesn't go through my meter.
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On Sun, 13 Mar 2011 10:24:18 -0400, Tony Miklos

They can still put the PoCo surge protectors in a CT can. It is not really in the meter. They just use the meter base as a connection point.
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On 3/13/2011 11:03 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

But would those little wires to the meter carry the surge current? I think it's #14-#12 wire and there are usually fuses in the CT meter box to keep the small conductors from melting.
TDD
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