choice of primers and paints

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Looking for recommendations on primers and paints for:
home interior home exterior garage/shop
Now then.. for my shop/garage/office.. I bought a couple of gals of Kilz general purpose at WalMart. I also have 3-4 gals of some Behr flat enamel leftover from another project and a couple other leftovers I'm thinking to use (maybe paint a couple different colors on the shop office walls).
CR recommends Behr mostly, but there is noise out there that BM or SW is really a better paint.
I'm beginning to think that flat is the way to go. By the time it really needs cleaned it can either be spot painted or is in need of a full repaint.
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For what it's worth, my kid has worked for a pro painter off & on for the past two years, and his boss has nothing but evil things to say about Behr products, especially for exterior work. He's impressed with Sherwin-Williams, and has no problems with Kilz either.
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Am I doing something wrong? I bought a gallon of the new Kilz "pro" and the last repair I did on the kitchen ceiling, I needed two heavy coats and it still wasn't a uniform white (but two coats of paint after that did the job.) Or did I just have really scungy plaster hiding under that old fluorescent light fixture? I was using a 3/8" nap roller.
nate
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Beats me. What did the manufacturer say when you called them?
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Sherwin Williams . Benjamin Moore , California are all fine paints...Take your pick...Was back at a house I drywalled and the homeowner used Behr Paint on the walls and ceiling and it looked fine..Never tried it myself...
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Without mentioning any particular brand, I'll offer this:
Shop at a *real* paint store, not a Walmart or big box store.
The professional, project-specific advice, as well as the quality of products, from tape to brushes to the paint itself, is well worth the extra money.
SWMBO bought shutters at Lowes and informed me that the trim and doors should match. I took them back to Lowes and asked them to custom match the color.
Three failed attempts later and the guy said "Our machine isn't very good with dark colors. I can't match it."
I went down the road to a local family-owned "chain" (5 stores) and they matched the color almost immediately. I just had them match the years-old paint in my kitchen so I could touch up around the new window and they hit it perfect the first time. When I built my shed, they suggested the correct primer and final coat combination which should get me years of service before it needs a touch-up.
I won't shop for paint anywhere else.
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Thanks for the personal experience. I've been through similar but with opposite results.
I don't recall which -- either SW or BM, but I opted for their paint on an exterior window trim job (for my own house). The paint was about gone 2 years after I painted. I scraped and sanded and removed as much of the orginal paint as I could. I then primed and painted with their recommended paint. Needless to say, after only 2 years, I was not happy. I used Behr the 2nd time around with better results. The 3rd time I used Valspar.
Maybe the answer is variable -- and depends on which formulation, temp and humidity condtions, etc. I cannot say that I've been thrilled with any particular brand of paint. None seem to come anywhere close to their advertized 15-20 years warranties.
I'm just looking for some thoughts form the group..
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kansascats wrote:

use any 100% acrylic latex for all... That is the r&d cutting edge for mass market paint. - any brand will work fine. Don't need to get too nit-picky paul oman/progressive epoxy polymers, inc.
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For a paint job to only last 2 years you did something very wrong, nobody here can say what you did that caused the failure, You need to get several people to look at your house to figure it out, and you need to know how it should be done. Where I live there is no question that Behr is not the best. 15-20 years is not uncommon, just looking outside my window I can see two houses I painted around 1994 that are not peeling, thats about when I quit painting. You should be able to get a company rep from SW out, Moore is a bit harder to get one over.
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ransley wrote:

FWIW I have used both Behr and Benjamin Moore for spot repairs in my kitchen, and the local Benjamin Moore place did a heck of a lot better job color matching, and the paint covers better too. Only downside is I waste so much filling up the roller to do a spot repair! I'm gonna have to start just doing repairs and then leaving them until I have 3-4 ready to go... (have a couple more spots to do, all around the house - same color though.)
By the time I get that all done, it'll be time to repaint :/ The real thing is, I don't want to leave all the work until we're ready to repaint, otherwise the sheer magnitude of the repairs needed will be overwhelming. So I'm pickin' away at them one at a time until it's mostly good.
nate
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Nate Nagel wrote:

1. Use a brush
2. Cut the roller in half. Or thirds. Or quarters.
3. Wipe it on with a sponge.
4. Dab it on with your pinky
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re: "Thanks for the personal experience. I've been through similar but with opposite results.
I don't recall which -- either SW or BM..."
Just to be clear, I wasn't talking about a paint store dedicated to/ franchised from any particular brand.
The "chain" I was referring to was a independant where they sell many different brands.
P.S. If the paint was gone after 2 years, I don't think the brand was the problem. If *any* brand of paint only lasted 2 years, they'd be out of business fairly quickly. SW and BM have been around for a long time, so I don't think they are selling paint that only lasts 2 years.
I'd start looking for the problem someplace other than the label on the can.
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kansascats wrote:

I have favorite brands, but not inclined to fight over them. I am intriqued by your comment that the paint "was gone 2 years after" you painted. Can you elaborate? Type of paint? All peeled, faded, or just "disappeared" or degraded badly? How many coats? Prep?

I used SW on my daughter's house because SW was the nearest paint store and I considered it a good brand. I painted exterior trim with alkyd semi-gloss after extensive prep...torching off old, alligatored paint, sanding, priming, caulking. Just applying the first brush-full was an experience...it just went on so easily and smoothly. There were a couple of places that, after 2-3 years, began to peel because I hadn't caulked the end grain well enough at the base of the vertical trim boards where they met the sill.
I've never had a paint job, with cheap or expensive paint, that "failed". The differences I have seen have been with: 1. coverage; 2. ease of cleaning. Cheap interior latex stains easily from any oily type stuff like handprints, ballpoint ink, lipstick, etc. Don't ask how it all got on the wall :o)
My parents built a home in 1983, concrete block/stucco, Florida. Painted with BM best...can't remember name. Repainted 10 years later, just for the hell of it....there was no sign at all that it NEEDED to be repainted :o) There was no chalking, peeling, mildew, etc.
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kansascats wrote:

If you had SW or BM paint that was "about gone" two years after painting, something was dreadfully wrong. Both are high quality. My parents' home was repainted after 10 years of wearing it's original coat of BM semi-gloss. It looked as good then as when it was originally painted. Any paint failing that quickly had some defect, either in application or in storage or a major factory f-up. I tried Behr paint once, for furniture, and it was crap.
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On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:13:16 -0500, " snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net"

I really like Benjamin Moore and Sherwin Williams. Behr is not nearly as good, perhaps overpriced for what it is. Check Consumer Reports--sometimes the best paint depends on the color. With all the time-consuming preparation work, I'll spend the extra money and get the best I can find. A good paint job is all about the prep work.
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What bugs me is the choices of "quality" of paint at SW/BM/PPG. I don't understand why they need more than 2 choices. The "good" and the "bad". Do they really need the "pretty good" and "not so bad" lines? There really cannot be that much of materials price difference. They likely "water down" to make the cheap stuff. So the point is always buy the best. So Behr at 25/gal vs SW at 45/ gal. In the big scheme of things that 20 difference is really not too significant, but on the flip side, is there really a significant difference in the ease of application or wear characteristics either? Probably not -- at least for the average DIYer. LIke I noted earlier -- the bigger obstacles are the prep, and when looking at the finished surface, generally there are more distractions than the paint itself -- visible nail holes, uneven miter joints, unsanded areas, poor joints, and so on. If I focus just on the paint alone, then maybe I can find a few brush marks or uneven coverage, but on the whole the paint is going to be minor compared to the rest. Now -- if one has all the perfect prep -- well, this discussion then is probably mute.
Looking at my office that I'm painting -- what's most visible (after priming, 1 topcoat on the drywall, 1 topcoat on the trim ) is --- the cutout in the drywall I did to add some 220V breakers to the shopside, the open miters on the window/door trim, all the stuff piled up in the middle of the floor while I wait to get this done, etc. I don't think once the paint job is done, I'm going to notice the brush marks or slight differences of coverage on the rolled areas. I just doubt BM, SW, PPG or others would make a significant difference compared to Behr, Valspar, or probably even Walmart brand. That's my opinion on interior. For exterior -- my main criteria would be longevity. We have BM on the house now. It's 10 years old and is showing some signs of fading. Nothing peeling that I can see. If I can get 10 years on an exterior paint, I think I'm pretty happy with that. 15 would be wonderful.
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kansascats wrote:

I have known people who repainted interior rooms every 2 or 3 years, just for color change. Those, and the people on more limited budgets, probably lean toward lower cost. When I paint, I go to great pains to prep thoroughly because I want the paint to last forever. Had one kitchen with BM alkyd semi that was still in great shape after 15 years and many cleanings. I painted my present kitchen 2-3 years ago for what I expect will be the final time. By the time it needs to be repainted, I may be too old and feeble to do it myself :o) Haven't ever thought in those terms before :o) Cost is a factor in when I will paint, but when I do it is with a choice quality of paint - I go with SW or BM and don't really compare within either as to cost - just pick from what they have. Always alkyd semi for bath, kitchen, doors and trim. I use leftover paint sometimes to renew an old or scavengered piece of furniture and for craft projects. I can mix in some artist oil paint and save buying a whole quart for a small project. Handy stuff :o)
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DerbyDad03 wrote:

this is total bs. We tried the high dollar SW paint from the 'real' paint store. Hated it. We'll stick with the Kilz colors from Walmart. Been through 200+ gallons.
s
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re: "this is total bs."
Not one word of it is "bs".
Every single word I wrote is 100% true in my experience.
Just because you didn't like the brand of paint you bought in no way way makes my experiences any less real.
BTW...by a "real" paint store I didn't mean one with the big SW sign out front. I meant an independant etablishment that can sell more than one brand at more than one price point, from basic house paints to specialty coatings.
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Walk into ANY home, look at the walls, then tell me what brand and quality of paint was used!
I used Walmart paint in my house and it looks the same as all other houses to me.
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