Automatic fire sprinklers

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are now required in new Pennsylvania homes: http://tinyurl.com/323syvr
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good idea?
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It's not as expensive as it used to be. There is a cpvc pipe that can be used for sprinklers. I don't think it's actually different, I think they just made it orange. But I'm not sure. I got 8 sprinkler heads to put in the garage I'm building out at our lake house. Picked them up on ebay for about $5 apiece. Idea came to me after some of our friends almost burned down their house with a garage fire. Happened while they were at home and they didn't know it until the neighbor called them. By then flames were rolling up the outside wall. $100k+ in damages and it barely got out of the garage into the living space above before the fire dept put it out.
I think you could do a whole house for a couple hundred in materials. Not sure how much additional plumber labor but I would think you could keep it under a grand total. My grandparents house in missisppi built in the 1920's had sprinklers located in on the ceiling in front of each fireplace hearth. Since there was a fireplace in every room it amounted to a whole house sprinkler system.
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wrote:

Sounds like just more pipes to burst, particularly in a second home. More nannyism for the government.
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On Jan 10, 1:10 pm, " snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

LOL... Sounds like you think you are in an area where public safety budgets have not been cut yet... It is either raise tax rates even more or start cutting even on the essential services like police and fire...
If it takes more than 5 minutes for the fire department to respond to your structure after calling 911, then a properly designed sprinkler system will save lives as well as prevent serious damage to your building...
Now realize that you might not become aware of a fire in your home if it is on another floor or in an isolated room like a garage or basement until it flashes over... If you are *just* calling the fire department at that point you will have a $100k loss to deal with...
If you are concerned about the water freezing in your sprinkler system there are dry sprinkler systems which keep the water out of the piping until a head pops and the air pressure is released opening the wet valve and allowing water to flow to the sprinkler heads...
Such systems are installed everywhere in commercial buildings where there is a large enough overhang or covered exterior area close to the building which requires protection because of its use or its location on an egress path which must be protected...
~~ Evan
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Unfortunately dry systems can be a pain in the ass to maintain they have drum drips which must be emptied at least monthly or you risk them freezing as well. pcv does not sweat as much but the drums must be kept empty to prevent problems.
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http://www.fpemag.com/articles/article.asp?i=477
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I have been responsible for sprinkler systems in various structures my entire life and I didn't spend half a day each month emptying drum traps. That is only necessary in the weeks immediately after a system trip or the weeks just after commissioning a metallic pipe system. Once a system is properly charged there is no way for water to enter the piping system beyond the dry pipe valve unless the system trips or is charged from the fire department connection. -- Tom Horne
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wrote:

"Facts" stated not in evidence and completely irrelevant.

If you're not OUT OF THE HOUSE by the time the fire department can get there, you're dead. A sprinkler system will also cause far more damage, overall.

That's why we have smoke alarms.

Are you stupid? Do you know how much damage a sprinkler going off will cause? Most of the damage in a fire, that's put out by a FD is caused by water. If they have to use more than 50gal of water the house is usually a write-off.

...and nothing ever goes wrong. ...goes wrong. ...goes wrong.

Commercial buildings <> single family residences.
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Assoc tests. Hollywood notwithstanding, sprinklers in residential applications (nursing homes, hotels, etc.) don't all go off all at once. It is quite often one or two heads. BIG difference from what the trucks put on the fire. Also fires double in size every minute or so. Flashovers can take place as little as 4-5 minutes. There has never in the history of the US been a multiple fatality fire in a building with a working sprinkler.

accelerated, you only have one or two go off. Current data from the USFA and NFPA suggest typical damage a home suffers during a fire is reduced by 71% when sprinklers are present and operating. Occupants in a home with an operating fire sprinkler system have an 80% increased chance of survival.

Single family residences have a lot of experience, see above.
--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to
koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
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On Jan 10, 7:02 pm, "Stormin Mormon"

I have pictures some where from when one head on an R 13 system went off in a town house kitchen and destroyed it and 2 rooms below it with water. because some one put something in a microwave they should not have. Sprinklers do work but they also cause significant damage as well. thats why many insurance company's will increase your premium on home owners insurance if you have sprinklers. have a customer with2 high end homes put sprinklers in both and turned them both off after having water damge from frozen pipes.
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Name one insurance carrier that will do that nick. Just one will do. -- Tom Horne
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On Jan 10, 6:02 pm, "Stormin Mormon"

The issue to me isn't if they work well but that federal, state or local governments shouldn't be mandating them. if the builder or customer wants them that's another story
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LOL... And why not ?
If something can save lives why not require it... Especially out there in the "heartland of America" where volunteer fire protection rules the day...
Smoke detectors = required Carbon monoxide detectors = required
automatic fire sprinklers = requirement coming soon
Not just the public safety folks, but normal people are starting to see the pattern of people dying in small home fires as opposed to large multi-unit dwellings which have had the requirement to be sprinkler protected for a while now...
How many people were electrocuted in the bathroom at home before GFCI's became a requirement ?
~~ Evan
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How many fires do you hear about on the news where the FD reports that there were no working smoke detectors? I'll tell you....a lot!
Smoke detectors are about $10. CO detectors a little more. Sprinkler systems are a lot more.
Smoke detectors should be mandatory. They are proven to save life and property at a very low cost. But, like anything else, they are only as good as the people who maintain them. Now, think of how much damage can be done with a sprinkler system that is not maintained properly.
I'm all for saving lives and property, but as hard as they try, politicians can't legislate stupidity.
Hank
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Whether you think requiring sprinklers in new homes is a good idea or not, I think it's positively STUPID to pass this law in PA now, in the middle of the worst housing recession since the Depression. Sort of like passing national health insurance, imposing all kinds of uncertaintity and new costs on businesses during the worst recession. They can't sell houses now, so let's make them cost even more....
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On Jan 11, 9:03 am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

All the new homes I see built are for the rich. Screw them. Contractors don't want to build cheap houses. They make more money on the big ones. All the poorer people have to settle for used stuff. The people that don't like national health insurance, don't have many friends that need it.
greg
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and your point is?
Doug
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Its not only Pa with sprinklers any state following ICC codes need sprinklers unless they have excluded itand some states did.
Also all new circuits installed in a any residence new or existing must now be protected by a Arc Fault breaker. at $35.00 a pop plus all electrical outlets must now be child tamper proof as of 2010 NEC Plus there are new insulation energy code costs and tests as well on average all the new code things will add 8-10 thousand to the cost of a new home.
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Any state following ICC codes now need to follow sprinkler code unless they exempt it not just Pa. Also There are new energy and Electrical codes to drive up the cost.
All new circuits installed in new or existing homes must now be protected by GFCI or new Arc Fault breakers Add $1000.00 extra cost for this average new homes. all outlets in home must be tamper proof to prevent children inserting items in outlets . a new infrared energy test must be run to see if home is leaking air. also new energy codes require almost all new homes have duct work in interior walls only no more outside walls unless special duct work used. average cost to a new home between sprinklers and electrical and energy is $8-10 thousand and thats if additional items like a pressure tank for sprinkler is needed.
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