Alarm system transformer + power supply (would both go bad at once?)

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On Saturday, November 23, 2013 7:17:54 PM UTC-5, Danny D'Amico wrote:

I think you're screwed. But I like the meter. I have the same one, going on 30 years now.
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On Sun, 24 Nov 2013 05:59:05 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Yeah. I've blown the 'bar' inside for the 10A fuse (my fault) and, I've had to replace the disc-shaped battery once (or twice?) but mine has to be from the early or mid 80s and it's still going strong.
It's strange that all three things are bad: 1. The power transformer secondary blew open 2. The battery-tender capacitor overheated 3. The main circuit board isn't working
I wonder what my options are ...
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On Monday, November 25, 2013 2:42:08 AM UTC-5, Danny D'Amico wrote:

If you can verify that the board has proper power on it from a battery and it's still not working, I'd say it's time to buy a new panel. You can get them for $150 or so.
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 05:34:00 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

That's probably what I'm going to have to do.
Meanwhile, ELK called me back and explained the "limited" part of the "lifetime warranty" on the AC transformer. The service technician said mine has a PTC fuse in the secondary.
He said ELK will replace it for free as long as it was used within the specifications of the device, e.g., in an approved alarm system (which it was).
They told me I could send it to them, or, I could contact these local "trade distributors" to see if they would work with a homeowner: 1. Home Tech Solution 408-257-4406 2. Custom Electronics Supply 408-452-8300 3. http://smarthome.com 800-762-7846
So, at the very least, I'll get the transformer replaced, under warranty, by one of those four. Also, I'll ask all of them how much they sell the board I need.
BTW, must I get the exact same board? Or can *any* alarm system board suffice?
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wrote:

You will need keypads to match the replacement board, the sensors should be OK although you may have to change the EOL resistors (if they are used).
If you have any 2 wire smoke detectors you may have to check compatibility with the new panel.
Doug
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 08:41:54 -0800, doug wrote:

I do have smoke alarms but don't know how they're wired.
Likewise, I have motion detectors and mostly hard-wired door/window switches, but some are wireless (the repair ones mostly).
I called a few outfits today looking for the D2212B(LT) control board: http://www.alarmhow.net/manuals/Radionics/D2212/
Apparently Bosch (who bought Radionics) won't sell to a consumer, so I'll need to get the D2212B board from either a distributor or dealer.
They retail about $100 to $125 but they're almost all out of stock on the web pages that I've found them listed.
If I buy a new board that is not the D2212B, am I to conclude I *must* go with Bosch/Radionics since I do have wireless devices?
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Danny D'Amico wrote:

If the control board does not solve the problem, then what?
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 14:54:56 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Normally I don't throw parts at a problem.
But, 1. The transformer is clearly bad (open secondary). So I have one on order and another coming in via warranty repair. But, this is not mandatory for operation anyway.
2. The battery protection board clearly has a capacitor that has melted leads on the underside. What I plan on doing there is replacing the capacitor; but this is not an important board for operation either.
3. When I put 12VDC to the main circuit board, it beeps a long beep, and nothing else happens.
So, what does that tell me?
It *could* be that the board simply needs to be "reset", so, I'll read all the manuals I found here: http://www.alarmhow.net/manuals/Radionics/D2212/
Or, it could be that the battery is bad. So, I'll charge the battery and test it under load, to see if that's the problem (but I don't think it is simply because the board is only drawing 100ma at 12VDC).
Or, it could be that the D2212B circuit board is bad. If that's the case, I'll try to troubleshoot it by testing where the power goes when I plug in the battery.
But, the board should only cost about $100 so it's not all that bad to just replace it. Bosch says they have plenty in stock, so, all I have to do is find someone who will sell them to me as a pass through:
Bosch sells the board to ADI or to Anixer, who then sells it to a pass-through contractor who sells it to me.
If the board doesn't work, then I'd be surprised; but it would then be time to replace the entire shebang.
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Danny D'Amico wrote:

Sorry to say this, I think you don't have basic logic TS skill and expertise/experience. Can you use Huntron tester or simple Boolean algebra for an example? One way of logical TS is process of elimination. You did not eliminate anything yet. Ever heard of shot gun method? When you are in a hurry, you do it based on your experience. Or you'll never pin point what is wrong. I lived all my life from Vacuum tube era in electronics as a hobby and career.
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:04:11 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

I can get the board for $104 but it's out of stock. The retail is $169, I'm told. So, now, all I need to do is find the board in that price range from a "pass through" guy who has a Bosch agreement.
You'd think this would be the easy part! :)
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wrote:

Um, call someone who knows what they're doing?
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 19:13:57 -0500, krw wrote:

Is that how Alt.Home.Repair works? Is that how Alt.Security.Alarms works? Is that how Sci.Electronics.Repair works?
Call someone who knows what they're doing? That's why I'm asking here.
You guys are supposed to know what you're doing!
:)
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On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:36 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico

Um, the point is that the alarm system doesn't work.

You can't be serious. Debugging electronics by long distance is difficult, at best, and impossible if the person at the other end is completely helpless.

You have a bigger problem than even I suspected.
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On 11/25/2013 6:51 PM, Danny D'Amico wrote:

Easy pal, it's hard to diagnose a problem with even simple electronic systems without hands on it and doing things to test it that actually come out of your subconscious. I mean things you've done for so many years, that you do them without thinking. I'll play a hunch on gear that's broken because I've seen so many failures of the same type or similar equipment for many years. I often find problems using just my eyes and my nose. I use a small flashlight or my lighted magnifying glass to look to look for cracks or loose components on a circuit board. I often do a wiggle test on vertically mounted components like the filter capacitors to check for broken solder joints on a circuit board then I often twist the board when it's powered up to check it for bad or intermittent connections. It's often a big mistake to assume another fellow has done tests that I would do without thinking about it. ^_^
TDD
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On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:52:40 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I agree. I hoping, for example, that someone knows a good way to "reset" the alarm system board, which might just be the problem.

Agreed. I see the burnt leads to the cap with my eyes; and I smelled the burnt transformer with my nose.

I agree; the best initial diagnostic is a good set of eyes going over every inch of the board!
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On 11/26/2013 7:18 AM, Danny D'Amico wrote:

I'm visually impaired, which means I'm very nearsighted so I use a penlight now tiny led flashlights to illuminate the circuit board which I must hold very close to my face after removing my eyeglasses in order to see what I'm doing. Some folks think it's funny to see me hold a piece of gear right up in my face. ^_^
TDD
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On 11/26/2013 8:54 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I'm also nearsighted. Zenni Optical has been kind enough to provide me inexpensive eye glasses. I've got daily wear glasses. With some creative tweaks of the Rx, I've also gotten reading glasses which are nice for reading, or for working on the soldering, grinder, etc. Good to have some plastic in front of my eyes.
--
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Christopher A. Young
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On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:59:59 -0500, Stormin Mormon

Don't rely on eyeglasses as safety devices. I just had a pair break. About 25% of a lens broke off, leaving a nice sharp point and two sharp edges on both pieces. Fortunately the glasses went the other way and I didn't get cut. The optometrist said "that can't happen", but it did. They replaced them without an issue, though.
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On 11/25/2013 7:51 PM, Danny D'Amico wrote:

observe things that us key board professionals won't see.
--
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Christopher A. Young
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On Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:29:55 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I love the term "key board professionals"!
:)
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