Adding extra ground/neutral buss bar in electrical panel or add sub-panel?

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On 3/26/2013 5:50 PM, bob haller wrote:

Bob, your story of the principal and her asinine attitude reminds me of several instance of bizarre demands I've encountered over the years and the actions I've had to take to satisfy the goofballs to let them go about they're life blissfully unaware that they had been bamboozled. I had a partner in a business where we were building sound systems, amps and speakers. The guy was a bit bonkers but who isn't so I tried to use his talents that weren't too far out in space. He insisted on setting the bass and treble controls up one notch past the center on his amp that we were using to test the rather large speakers we were building, claiming he could hear hear the difference. If I ever set the controls to the center, he became angry and set them back to one notch higher. So rather than argue anymore, I set the controls to center, removed the knobs and put them back on so they showed the controls were set one notch above center. When he came by and saw that I was operating the amp with the controls at his preferred setting, the smug look on his face had me laughing internally since he never knew what I had done.... Many years ago, an instructor I had in a course for broadcast engineering gave me a word that I still use which describes a mythical electronic/electric/mechanical device which does not exist and never will, the word is "Framistan". When I've had to deal with someone who has no technical knowledge and is a difficult person to deal with who demands to be told exactly whats wrong with a piece of equipment rather than accepting the explanation that it's broken, I tell them it has a defective Framistan and that my supplier is trying to locate one. If the unpleasant person demands to know what a Framistan is, I go on to explain that it's a quantum resonance device named after the unusual metallic element the device is made with found only in the region of Framistan located in a very hard to access and difficult to mine area between Afghanistan and Pakistan. The substance requires special handling and UPS and FedEx have a very hard time getting in and out of Framistan so even though each device requires a tiny amount of the element, it's very expensive due to the great difficulty obtaining it. If that doesn't satisfy them I finally explain that they will die if they do not walk away from me immediately. ^_^
TDD
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wrote:

Do you threat\en to feed them the Framistan as a suppository ?
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On 3/30/2013 10:29 PM, Attila Iskander wrote:

Only if they're talking out their ass. ^_^
TDD
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Would that be a Framispository?
Detected by colorectal Exfram? . Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . .

Do you threat\en to feed them the Framistan as a suppository ?
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How many here have sold a home and had it inspected in the last 6 years?
Most here would want to buy a fixer upper, save money, and DIY.
Home buyers I had dealings with:( Want a perfect code compliant home to the code 5 years in the future, tend to buy to the top of their price range leaving no money for upgrades, complain about paint and carpet color, and have home inspectors who havent a clue, basically a PIA:(
The best way to avoid a LOT of hassles is minimize anything you can that they might complain about.
If the service drop and meter will allow a upgrade to 200 amps, and the existing panel is a WESTINGHOUSE, where you might get breakers but not parts, I would upgrade to 200 amps in a heartbeat.....
of course your mileage may vary.
if you do repairs and upgrades before you try to sell home you can DIY, once your in the sales process ALL work must be done by registered contractors, at 5 times the cost....
I have a very good elderly friend whos home is literally falling apart. Needs roof leaking, box gutters bad, porch floor bad, bricks on bad areas so no one falls thru, home not painted in 25 years.......
he states home is great top notch, he is in his 80s and saving the money for his old age. he is a millionaire.....
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A house with a 150 service and a subpanel is code compliant, is it not? How you make something code compliant today to new codes that will exist 5 years from now, I don't know.
tend to buy to the top of their

The problem is, what is the cost of all of that minimizing? The roof is 18 years old, get a new roof? WH is 8 years old, get a new WH? HVAC is 12 years old, get a new HVAC? Or in the case under discussion, pay $2000 more to upgrade the electric service instead of installing a subpanel?
And if you have buyers that are going to want discounts because of carpet or paint color, where does it end? I would submit that you could spend $25K trying to minimize and then the buyers still want $2K of stuff fixed. If you didn't do the $25K in fixing what isn't really broken, might they not then agree to $5K in repairs to cover some stuff, that isn't really broken? So IMO you could spend $25K+$2K or you could just knock off $5K at sale time. Or buy them a warranty on the furnace, AC, etc
And if you have a nut case buyer that is being totally unreasonable, unless you're desperate to sell, I say just say no. If they are so worried about squeezing every nickel out of your hide, they are probably also just as worried about seeing their $500 for home inspection, the $200 or so they already spent on a lawyer go down the drain if they don't buy the house.

Who exactly says that you can't do the work yourself? It's still my house. And anything I could do legally before, I can still do, unless you signed a contract that says otherwise. If so, then I guess you have to call an electrician to replace a GFI and a painter to paint the front door.

There is a difference between a house that is an obvious wreck and fixing things that really aren't broken in an attempt to eliminate any possible objection.
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by registered licensed contractors with receipts
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wrote:

Bullshit.
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There is no "standard" and the ones I've signed did not contain any such clauses. I mean it's ridiculous if or example the buyer is bitching about extending downspouts, a leaky faucet, or trash on the property to require licensed contractors. I've sold properties and done the few things squawked myself and no one bitched. Why would you sign a contract that says any and all repairs have to be done by a licensed contractor?
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I just looked through "Contract for Sale of Real Estate - Residential" for NY, Caifornia and Florida at http://www.uslegalforms.com/
Maybe those contracts aren't "standard", but I was unable to find any mention that "all repairs must be done by registered licensed contractors with receipts".
I searched the documents for "repair", "licensed" and "contractor" and while "licensed" comes up with regard to Radon inspections and some other items, none of the contracts say anything about repairs being done by licensed contractors.
The only thing I could find with regards to repairs were statements like this:
"Buyer accepts the Property in its present condition; provided Seller, at Seller’s expense, shall complete the following repairs and treatment:"
and other such statements that do no more than define who will be responsible for the repairs. Nothing is stated as to who must perform the repairs.
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Well I have sold a house, In PA its standard.
In phoenix my family bought and sold 5 or 6 homes. That clause was standard on all home sales.
If you think about it a buyer gets a home inspector who finds problems, so the buyer requires repairs.
to get quality repars the licensed contractor clause is standard, so the seller gets a quality repair done and the buyer doesnt end up with a safety hazard...
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Here is a boilerplate contract from a PA real estate association:
http://parealtorcore.com/COREforms/ASR-fill.pdf
Nothing about all repairs needing to be done by a licensed contractor. So it can't be that standard. Also, I haven't seen it in contracts here in the Peoples Republic of NJ. I would think it would show up here long before PA.
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On 4/1/2013 12:50 PM, bob haller wrote:

sorry, but no. i live in phoenix, sold a house not too long ago, and the standard contract did not include this clause. as a matter of fact, i fixed a number of items myself, without any problems.
http://www.uslegalforms.com/samples/AZ/AZ-00472.pdf
on page 3: Buyer accepts the Property in its present condition; provided Seller, at Seller’s expense, shall complete the following repairs and treatment:
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wrote:

Bulllshit. Show us.

More Haller Bullshit.

So what?

Nope. If the buyer is worried about the quality of the repairs, he gets it reinspected. I had that happen with some electrical issues in my MIL's house. No big deal. The inspector didn't charge anything for the second inspection; just a quick check.
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On Apr 1, 4:23 pm, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Like ANYTHING it might depend on the buyers agent.
My brother had a small wall by his driveway that had a minor hit, and cracked. He fixed it himself and claimed he couldnt find the receipt.... the buyer accepted his explnation.
but really a small wall by a driveway needs a pro? it wasnt a retaining wall it was decorative....
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wrote:

<crickets>

<crickets>

Bullshit, Haller. You said it was in the STANDARD CONTRACT. IOW, you're lying. Again.

Even you admit that you're lying.

<boggle>
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On Apr 1, 5:17 pm, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Go try and sell a home TODAY and let us know how easy it is
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wrote:

<more crickets>

<crickets out the wazoo>

I just did, dummy. I finished their "punch list" on Friday and they moved in Saturday. I hired two contractors, one a roofer to look at some "missing" shingles on the bottom edge of the chimney flashing (there weren't supposed to be any there) and another to replace another double-glazed window that failed (that makes 24 of 26 that failed). Neither charged me a dime and all of the rest of the work I did myself. No complaints.
Want to try again? ...or do you want to continue to show everyone what a fool you are.
Oh, and my insurance company didn't bitch, either.
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On Apr 1, 11:04 pm, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

m>

Also, it's often easier to just fix the simple things yourself and then agree with the buyer on an amount to cover anything that's more involved or that involves personal choice. Dishwasher doesn't work? Here's $350, get one you like. It's faster and then there is no arguing over the quality, results of repairs, etc.
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On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 06:13:21 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

I forgot to mention that the only reason I hired the above contractors was 1) I knew there weren't supposed to be any shingles over the chimney flashing (nothing to attach them to) but wanted someone else to tell the buyer that and 2) the windows were under warranty so I had to have a contractor do the work (dumb bastards built the windows inside out and the low-E coating turned color because it was exposed to the elements).

Absolutely. I've been on both ends of that deal, too. It's perfectly normal. This stuff isn't the rocket-surgery Haller pretends it to be.
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