# Quartz Space Heater

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• posted on January 29, 2007, 5:32 pm

Add request pending, good to see you back, KJ.
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• posted on January 28, 2007, 10:36 am
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:

Therefore, if you are sitting exposed to sources A, B and D, you feel warmer with the same power (sounds strange ?) as of C or E.
If you are interested ONLY in heating a room, answer 1) is ok. But if you are interested in heating people (for example, outdoor), sources A, B and D are very efficient options.
Let us put it this way: A,B and D are most efficient in delivering the same amount of power of C and E, but where you need it more: on your body.
Example: a keep 64 F at home. When I am walking around it is a comfortable temperature. But when I sit down, I start to feel a little cold. Solution: a 150W halogen lamp with reflector pointed in my direction. 150W is not that much power, but you have to compare it to your body heating power (about 100-200W), so if you could deliver that power to heat yourself and not the walls of your house ... :-)
R.L.Deboni
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<%-name%>
• posted on January 28, 2007, 7:29 pm
Hey ! Free illumination!
Do you believe in perpetual motion too?

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<%-name%>
• posted on January 28, 2007, 9:34 pm
Actually, the illumination is, indeed, free. 500 watts of energy consumed results in 500 watts of heat, regardless of what else the energy is doing. If you have a refrigerator that consumes 500 watts of electricity and it runs continuously, it's producing exactly the same amount of heat as five 100 watt light bulbs. And it chills your beer for free. In fact, if you heat your home with electricity, it doesn't cost a dime to run all your appliances and keep all your lights on all day and all night long (assuming, of course, that you do it during the heating season and you're not overheating your house).
snipped-for-privacy@hootmail.invalidated says...

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• posted on January 28, 2007, 10:03 pm
Mike Hartigan wrote:

<snip>
I'm surprised the marketeers have never tried that argument as an advantage of electric heat over gas or other alternatives. :-)
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• posted on January 28, 2007, 11:02 pm

It isn't an advantage as long as the heating system is thermostat regulated, using electric will save gas, but may cost more.
Joe Fischer
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<%-name%>
• posted on January 28, 2007, 11:05 pm
says...

The problem is that electricity costs so much more per unit of energy than the alternatives that it can't be sold as an economic alternative. Electric heat is 100% efficient. It simply costs more.
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<%-name%>
• posted on January 29, 2007, 7:13 am

It doesn't cost more in all areas of the world.
In FACT, a natural gas fired, forced air furnace cost more to run than straight electric heat last year.
Now just think of the savings they could have had with a heat pump!
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<%-name%>
• posted on January 29, 2007, 12:49 pm
usenet.com> says...

True. I'm speaking in conventional terms in the US. Obviously, YMMV.

Depends on where you live in the country. While my figgerin' could be wrong, at around \$0.08/kwh, (Chicago area), I calculated that natural gas would need to be in the ballpark of \$2 per therm in order for electricity to be competitive.

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<%-name%>
• posted on January 29, 2007, 1:51 pm

watts
the
your
it
you
You're correct, and natural was up to over \$2.50 a therm last winter.
So input that into a 80% furnace and we have trouble.
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<%-name%>
• posted on January 29, 2007, 3:01 pm

horseshit. try paying \$.24/kw for electricity. lets see....we burn natural gas to produce electricity.....and electricity is cheaper? LOL too funny.

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<%-name%>
• posted on January 29, 2007, 4:15 pm
wrote in message

We're currently at \$.052 /kwh up here.
http://www.cowlitzpud.org/pdf/3-2-06.Rate%20Schedule%201.pdf

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<%-name%>
• posted on January 29, 2007, 7:20 pm
wrote in message

Not every power supplier burns natural gas for it's source. Our electric rates are much cheaper since they burn coal in this area.
I'm also not saying that electric is ALWAYS cheaper all over the US or saying that it stays that way. (we were talking about 8 cents/kw vers high priced natural and using a heat pump to save money)
Last year our natural price was over \$2.50 per therm while electric was under .08 cents/kw. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it! :-)
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<%-name%>
• posted on January 31, 2007, 2:59 am
wrote in message

Where is electricity .24/kw?
The utility where I live burns minimal gas just enough so they can base their production cost on it. For example - using nuclear it cost 1 unit to produce one mw of electricity, two units of coal to produce one mw of electricity and ng cost 8 units to produce one mw of electricity. They list their cost as 8 units to create one mw of electricity and it's perfectly legal under the recently enacted rules re: deregulation. BGE works something like this 50% of the electricity is produced using nuclear, 40% using coal and maybe 5% other and 5% using ng. They legally state their cost is 8 units per mw of electricity.
Can you spell rip-off. There will never be anything resembling a legitimate completive market for electricity. Why? it can't be stored,there's no real competition, the local electric power grid weren't designed to ship electricity long distances, due line resistance there's a greater power loss the further electric is shipped and it stresses the power grids which were designed for local consumption. Deregulated electric rates will never save consumers money over sanely regulated rates. The next big rip of coming will be in "delivery charges" already in some areas "delivery charges" and "customer charges" are approaching the over priced cost of deregulated electricity.
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<%-name%>
• posted on January 31, 2007, 12:10 pm

Nowhere, altho PV people get 50 cents/kWh in Germany.
You might enjoy learning the difference between power and energy.
Nick
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<%-name%>
• posted on February 1, 2007, 1:28 am
wrote:

My God .50/kw how to those people afford live and how to manufacturers sell anything that competitive? What are PV people? I wonder where the most expensive electricity is in the US and the cheapest?
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• posted on February 1, 2007, 3:11 am

I don't know what it's like today, but, as I recall, customers of some of the municipal power companies in New York that were buying hydro power from PASNY were paying something like \$0.004/kwh (yes, that's less than 1/2 cent) as recently as 1999. Needless to say, these were all electric homes.
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<%-name%>
• posted on January 29, 2007, 7:13 pm

When I was a kid, in the Pacific Northwest, electricity was \$.02/KwH. My Father, the Banker, was a Depression KId, and had a fetish about turning off the lights, in rooms that were unoccupied. He would get very angry at us kids for "Wasting Electricity". In 7th Grade, I wrote a Paper for Science Class on the efficency of an "All Electric House" which we lived in. Got an "A" on the Paper, and after my Father read it, he quit ragging on us kids about the lights, but only durning the winters. Summers were still a bit of a hassel........
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• posted on January 28, 2007, 11:03 pm

Not sure that is 100% true. There is lots of waste heat, but the refrigeration system is expending energy pumping heat out of the refrigerated area, just so it can gradually be absorbed back from your heated home. At the end of the day, does all of the energy that the refrigerator uses really show up as waste heat in the room?
Vaughn
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• posted on January 28, 2007, 11:37 pm
Hi Vaughn;
> > If you have a refrigerator that consumes 500 watts > > of electricity and it runs continuously, it's > > producing exactly the same amount of heat as five > > 100 watt light bulbs.
> Not sure that is 100% true. There is lots of waste > heat, but the refrigeration system is expending > energy pumping heat out of the refrigerated area, > just so it can gradually be absorbed back from your > heated home. At the end of the day, does all of the > energy that the refrigerator uses really show up > as waste heat in the room?
Of course it does. If the refrigerator is consuming an average of 500W it delivers an average of 500W. That's just basic physics.
There is a "cool" exception, but this was not included in the original question.
During the heating season take liquid tap water in a container, freeze it in the freezer, and throw the resultant ice out doors.
In addition to the power needed to run the refrigerator you will have extracted some of the heat in the water.
Cool huh!