Natural Gas Furnace & Water Heater Upgrade.

Natural Gas Furnace & Water Heater Upgrade.
Good day all, I have to replace my gas furnace, because the one I have is dying.
Current Equipment & detail: 125 000 BTU gas fired furnace (chimney type) 50 US Gallons 42 000 BTU gas fired water heater (chimney type)
My house is a bungalow (main floor00sq ft. + same size basement)
I live in Canada, Province of Québec - near Ottawa region. The temperature from dec to april can shift between +10oC to -30oC (50oF to -22oF)
I had several company come and do estimates:
After looking at different option I have chosen a high eff. dual stage furnace with variable speed. For all I could read on the subject, on the long run, it's the best choice, confort and $ wise.
I had different "brand / type" of furnace offered :
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York 92% Efficiency 2 stage 60 000BTU Affinity 9.V : PV9B12N060UP11
Carrier (up to 96.6% ???) Efficiency 2 stage 60 000BTU Infinity Series : 58MVB *(What is "up to 96% ? Is this a marketing catch?)
Goodman 95% Efficiency 2 stage 69 000BTU : GMV95
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I don't know ANYTHING about which brand to get.
Everyone is selling "The Best" type of thing, so realy it's hard to do a logical choice. I would like to get a neutral opinion / experience with the brands above.
I also have questions :
#1 High efficiency furnace are direclty vented outside with an ABS type pipes. Can they "cap" the outside part with a "screen" or something similar to dryer vent so birds/mices don't enter the pipes?
#2 High efficiency furnace - 2 stages models, apparently required a "dual stage enabled thermostat" in order to get the full potentialof the furnace... Some sellers says that you NEED IT, some other said you don't need it since the 'controller' on the furnace take care of that.
Some other sellers said that you don't need it, but it would be even more efficient to have one - confort wise and for gas consumption $. Since the furnace not equipped with the 2 stages thermostat will run for 8 minutes before going on the 2nd stage if required.
#3 NOISE: High efficiency Furnace and Water heater are equiped with a 'POWER VENT' ; Are these noisy ? Overall, the noise of my new high. eff. equipments equipped with power-vents should be lower than the noise of my current furnace?
#4 High efficiency water heater - is it worth it ? Currenlty my old water heater is rented at a rate of 10.50 cdn$/month The new High Efficiency water heater would cost 16.80 cdn$/month My Gas consumption for the water heater is approx. 40 cubic meter per month @ approx 0.60$/cubic meter = 24$
How much efficiency would I get from a high efficiency water heater? Would it cover the rental $ difference between the 16.80$ ad 10.50 model = 6.30$ ? (or will I save at least 10.5 cubic meter of gas per month or 25% ) ?
Could you point me in the right direction? Thanks in advance, Ben
snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com
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Some people consider goodman to be the "chevy" of hvac systems. Finding a good installer that is familiar with what he is installing and has a good track record will make a lot more difference in how trouble free the system is down the road.
1. Yes they can put a guard on to keep birds out. 2. You are spending a lot of money to get a hi-eff system, get the thermostat too. 3. Not noisy. It's a small fan. 4. I do not think you will have a 25% increase in efficiency. If you are you are going to be there a while you'd probably save by buying a hot water heater instead of renting one. If you figure a hot water heater is good for 12 years you are paying $1,512 for it.
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On 6 Apr 2007 10:02:43 -0700, "jamesgangnc"

try "Yugo" instead of "chevy".

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Bencrx91 wrote:

That a'way <>

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#1

condensing water heater like most tankless or combo units are high efficiency, but not a power vented tank. I would never own a power vent tank. Conventional vent tank is worth owning, they rarely break down. You will have paid $1500 for your existing tank over 15 years renting it. You could have your own installed for $800 at the most. Power vent tanks have more parts, failures and won't heat without power.

A power vent water heater is 80% max. Now you have the cost of electricity to run the motor. A standard tank runs around 70%+. I'm not sure if by eliminating the chimney, it would resuslt in less heat loss, which would then cover the cost. I can't really see much benifit of a power vent water heater over a conventional vent, besides recovery time. People that have the power vent claim to save money though.
Personally I would go with the high efficiency furnace, but I would keep my conventional vented water heater up the chimney, because it's more reliable, cheaper to own and repair, and will heat without hydro.
-Canadian Heat
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"DANgER" <"danger"@heat.com wrote in message

leaves.
Why pay more for a 2 stage furnace then put a single stage stat on it that limit its operation? That's just ignorant!
A 2 stage furnace deserves a 2 stage thermostat!!!!
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On 08 Apr 2007 05:15:00 GMT, DANgER (danger< snipped-for-privacy@heat.com) wrote:

condensing water heater like most tankless or combo units are high efficiency, but not a power vented tank. I would never own a power vent tank.

paid $1500 for your existing tank over 15 years renting it. You could have your own installed for $800 at the most. Power vent tanks have more parts,

which would then cover the cost. I can't really see much benifit of a power vent water heater over a conventional vent, besides recovery time. People

conventional vented water heater up the chimney, because it's more reliable, cheaper to own and repair, and will heat without hydro.

Geez-us! I go away for a week and you're at it again.
#2 A siingle stage stat for a 2 stage furnace? Yup, that sounds like you DANgER. Do it wrong and do it wrong the first time. I'll bet you change your tune when you set that stat back 10 degrees overnight when the temp drops to 0 outside and you have to wait 16 minutes in the morning while getting ready for work in a cold house while you wait for your furnace to cylce on High heat.
#4 Power vented water heaters useless? Thing ding bat, think. Ever seen a new home now a days? The only chimney you will find is for the fireplace. Where you going to run your conventional water heater flue now? Power vent heater installed for $800?! Have you priced one lately? You'll be out of business quickly that way. (Oh, wait, that's a good thing..............For YOU!!)
DANgER, you just keep proving yourself over and over and over.
Bubba
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holy fuck bubba, wipe the foam from your mouth freak show. It was a very enjoyable week without you here.
"Conventional vent tank is worth owning, they rarely break down. You will have paid $1500 for your existing tank over 15 years renting it. You could have your own installed for $800 at the most. "
I said $800 for a conventional vented tank like the one he has, not $800 for a power vent tank.
And a smarter person then you, would simply program his thermostat to re heat 16 minutes earlier in the morning....
MORON!
HAHAHA I missed you bubbs, glad to see your still ranting and raving and making no sense.
Clown!!!
-Canadian Heat
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"DANgER" <"danger"@heat.com wrote in message

No, some of us DO IT RIGHT the first time by installing the proper TWO STAGE thermostat. I know the extra wiring confuses you, but you should start trying to do things right. Your customers deserve better!

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kypro your are a dumb shit. He asked a simple question. The simple answer is NO he doesn't need a 2 stage thermostat to control a 2stage furnace. I understand your very proud of yourself for knowing how to install a 2stage thermostat, I'm proud of you too!
HAHA
-Canadian Heat
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"DANgER" <"danger"@heat.com wrote in message

Might as well install a single-stage furnace then too, Eh?

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I honestly doubt you could even explain to me what two-stage heating is....Why it's a benefit, and how it actually increases efficiency?
C'mon KY...anyone can pull on a wire, let's see if you actually understand what it is your connecting.
A 2 stage thermostat is not necessary in my climate or his, he lives in Quebec. Board control will suffice. A two-stage thermostat is just one more sensor to fail.
.waiting for your 2 part answer... HAHA
-Canadian Heat
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"DANgER" <"danger"@heat.com wrote in message

I would be wasting time... you'd never keep up.

Seems you can't... that's why you install SINGLE STAGE thermostats!!!

That's the typical answer one would get from someone that doesn't understand the advantage of two-stage heating. Hell, might as well install a whirlpool tub and not wire the pump, Eh?
As far as explaining the benefits, I would be wasting my time if I actually thought you'd understand the concept. I would have better results explaining it to Chris AKA Stormin Moron.

1. Your incompetent
2. See number 1

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HAHAHA KY, all that typing and no answer...
Guess it must really be complicated ;)
-Canadian Heat
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On 09 Apr 2007 04:20:25 GMT, DANgER (danger< snipped-for-privacy@heat.com) wrote:

Your way of saying you missed me. How sweet.

Renting? You bone head. I guess you rent your furnace too? Oh, that's right. You are living in a trailer so in reality, YOU are renting. My bad.

I dont think you really know what you said. You never do.

re heat 16 mins earlier? Earlier than what? So no matter what temp you set your furnace back to overnight, just set it to heat back up 16 mins earlier???? You really are a "tard".

See, I knew you missed me. This is where you get down on your knees. Bubba

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Does anyone know why bubba can't stop talking about trailers parks? I guess they bring back alot of bad memories for him.
"Renting? You bone head. I guess you rent your furnace too? Oh, that's right. You are living in a trailer so in reality, YOU are renting. My bad. -bubba"
Wow bubbs I knew you were dumb, but c'mon, your acting like a fool now. You really make no sense at all. Your a degenerate.
Let me post the original post, made by the original poster...
"High efficiency water heater - is it worth it ? Currenlty my old water heater is rented at a rate of 10.50 cdn$/month The new High Efficiency water heater would cost 16.80 cdn$/month My Gas consumption for the water heater is approx. 40 cubic meter per month @ approx 0.60$/cubic meter = 24$"
See he mentions renting a water heater... you have never heard of renting a water heater?
LOL
Every single one of you who replied to this guys questions are beyond incompetent. Maybe you and your little boyfriend KY can run that stat wire for the guy.
HAHA
Try to do a better job of reading, I realize you are an overweight, uneducated person, but even a small child has more comprehension then you.
Keep replying, all of you little furnace cleaners, I enjoy seeing you all makes fools of yourselves.
-Canadian Heat>then you all
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On 10 Apr 2007 03:05:41 GMT, DANgER (danger< snipped-for-privacy@heat.com) wrote:

Coming from someone that installs single stage stats on 2 stage equipment, Id say that qualifies you as a hack. Same applies when jumping out door switches that you dont seem to think are a safety issue. DANgER, you are a true incompetent to the profession. Bubba
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