installing new systems ?

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Presently all my systems are R22. I have 6 at 3 different properties. Most of them I installed myself over the years. I realize that I'm probably not going to be replacing any of them with another R22 system when the time comes. With the R22 systems I was able to get away with using regular silver solder and a hand torch on the lines. I know the new systems run at a higher pressure. Anyone use silver solder on the new refrigerant? Or am I going to have to break down and practice brazing?
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If silver braze don't do it for you close business you be better off

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The pressures are 1.6 times the equivilant for R22. I've heard that Stabrite 8 works fine. I do stick brazing now and again, when I have to work with old copper. It takes hotter torch, but it's the same general concept. You should be fine with silver bearing solder.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Presently all my systems are R22. I have 6 at 3 different properties. Most of them I installed myself over the years. I realize that I'm probably not going to be replacing any of them with another R22 system when the time comes. With the R22 systems I was able to get away with using regular silver solder and a hand torch on the lines. I know the new systems run at a higher pressure. Anyone use silver solder on the new refrigerant? Or am I going to have to break down and practice brazing?
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You've "heard" because you have never done it and never worked with R410a.

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You know, some folks have quiet self confidence, and nobility. They teach, share, and lift others up. Some people (often with feelings of inadequacy) try to get their height by pushing others down.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
You've "heard" because you have never done it and never worked with R410a.
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On Mar 14, 6:44am, "Stormin Mormon"

Whom might you be reffering to ?
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Dear I'll, There was ONE sentence in my post, with text from ONE person. I'm referrring to.. . hint... five letters. First letter of the name is S.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .

Whom might you be reffering to ?
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On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 07:44:14 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

This group has long been trashed with the folks you describe. There was a time when questions were asked and most answered with civility. The current attitude does nothing for the trade. I wouldn't hire a service man who spent any time debasing all the others before him/her. I would only be interested in results and a reasonable price to fix problems.
I can remember a time whenever I visited a dentist he took one look in my mouth and said, "Good Grief! Who was the butcher who worked on your mouth?" After hearing that enough times and not from a few most patients realized that they didn't want a dentist who spends any time enamoring himself at the expense of other dentists and those who bark the most are best be avoided.
The HVAC trade was one where technicians helped rather than ridiculed each other. Today too many are like gossiping housewives. Again, too bad.
John
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Well, it only takes a couple good folks on a list, to keep things going. I hope you post again, and often.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
This group has long been trashed with the folks you describe. There was a time when questions were asked and most answered with civility. The current attitude does nothing for the trade. I wouldn't hire a service man who spent any time debasing all the others before him/her. I would only be interested in results and a reasonable price to fix problems.
I can remember a time whenever I visited a dentist he took one look in my mouth and said, "Good Grief! Who was the butcher who worked on your mouth?" After hearing that enough times and not from a few most patients realized that they didn't want a dentist who spends any time enamoring himself at the expense of other dentists and those who bark the most are best be avoided.
The HVAC trade was one where technicians helped rather than ridiculed each other. Today too many are like gossiping housewives. Again, too bad.
John
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Youre correct John. The typical HVAC Tech today is a guy with personal problems , an 'F this / F that' attitude, and sees his colleages as competitors ... as if there isnt enough customers to go around . It wasnt so much this way when i started out in 1974, but today, its a vicious , querolous, indecorous place for Male gossipers and slanderers.
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On 3/16/2012 9:46 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

All three of you belong over in the alt.crybabiesRus newsgroup.

You are a lying sack of shit! You were never in the business in 1974 and this NG wasn't started until the early 1990's. In fact I doubt that a self righteous SOB like you has ever worked at anything other then sucking religious hind tit. This NG was never about exemplifying the trade to the general public. You have to purchase your own advertising for that. I smell a nasty troll here.
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I never said i was in this NG in 1974 ! lol.... And it is irrelevant what you *feel about myself. Stay on topic.
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I never said i was in this NG in 1974 ! lol.... And it is irrelevant what you *feel about myself. Stay on topic.
I will not comment on who does what because it is irrelevant. However talking about brazing with silver sil-fos or soft solder if you take your time clean the joints good and flux it with appropriate flux, what gas system is using it does not have any effect; however for what temperature is used it makes large difference, the soft solder at low temperature will disappear similar to evaporate and in few years will start to leak, not because vibration but because cold temp. eats it up. I used all brazing material include "brass welding" on copper to Steel or brass to steel up to 8" redouis above this size two people are require one on each side in order to have enough of heat for job to be done. There many time when I used staybrite especially on Vibration absorbers' to limit heat on absorber itself. I done this on 30 HP machines and I never had leaks where discharge Temperatures can be up to 250 F. and pressure up 350PSI or higher. Conclusion is how are you do it and not what type solder are you using "Even so you should use silver for higher pressures and temperatures.
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" snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com" wrote in message

I never said i was in this NG in 1974 ! lol.... And it is irrelevant what you *feel about myself. Stay on topic.
Oh wow! for the 2 years I was with Verizon FIOS and denied newsgroups I missed this so much. I have to look around the group and see if there is any pro info shared around. For the several years I participated in the fun, there was ONLY cursing and bickering. It was fun; priceless fun.
Don't be so thin skinned and don't expect any advice or help here on HVAC. If you want plumbing help visit terrylove.com
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O.K., let's settle this. What year did Al Gore invent the internet?

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are you still looking for free news ;unsent, binary, alt but apparently I see that you do! I wonder who is your host

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On 3/16/2012 8:22 AM, John Rhosos wrote:

Ohhh! Oooh! Nobody loves us anymore. Call your Lawyer for free advice etc. You will be billed for an hour for every portion of an hour you waste his time. We don't have that capability. You want advice? We can give it to you during a paid for service call. When the clock is running. Now go whine to your other liberal free loading pals!
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On Mon, 12 Mar 2012 19:46:54 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

Long before silver solder or sil-floss was on the market, we used 95/5 solder on refrigeration joints. This worked just fine for R-12 as well as R-22 units. Granted, silver solder/Sil-floss is much better but a good weld with 95/5 worked well then and will still work today. I don't think I'd use it on the new 410A systems.
Our organization bought into 3 of the 9 R-22 machines that were built with Catepillar V-8 Engines driving the open drive compressors. They were built by a company by the name of EnChill and after 9 machines ran out of the country to Europe where they use Rolls-Royce engines instead of Catepillar. Soft solder was used on many connections and of course, the vibration of the engine opened leaks on a regular basis. The vibration of the machine caused issues with the engine controls as well.
This 450T machine held over 800 lbs of R-22 so any leak was considered catastrophic. I finally tired of fixing soft solder and used sil-floss on all of the copper connections, replacing most of it with 304SS flare fittings. Never had any leaks on the three odd machines though one of the more problematic of the three was replaced with a Trane Ice Bank machine, a great choice.
All things considered, sil-floss/silver solder was the best choice for a weld. There is a paste (I think it was called Force) that I used even though sil-floss doesn't require paste and I liberally pasted the pipe and fittings. Using a wet rag as soon as the weld was make, I wiped off the pipe which left a nice golden colored weld without the black staining you get from Sil-Floss. It gave the job a term we used to call, "Shining the job" which contractors didn't want to see you spending time making the work "look nice".
Before I sound older than the Widow's Son of the tribe of Naphalai, I'd better quit here.
John
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You sound like you've had some experience. That's a lot of refrigerant in the system, I'm sure they would not like to have it all leak out.
As to wet rag the fittings. The flux needs to be removed, or it will keep corroding the metal away. Yes, it makes it pretty, but it also has a very important reason. So the fitting doesn't corrode out in a couple years.
You sure you didn't come over on the boat with Lehi and Sariah in 600 BC?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Long before silver solder or sil-floss was on the market, we used 95/5 solder on refrigeration joints. This worked just fine for R-12 as well as R-22 units. Granted, silver solder/Sil-floss is much better but a good weld with 95/5 worked well then and will still work today. I don't think I'd use it on the new 410A systems.
Our organization bought into 3 of the 9 R-22 machines that were built with Catepillar V-8 Engines driving the open drive compressors. They were built by a company by the name of EnChill and after 9 machines ran out of the country to Europe where they use Rolls-Royce engines instead of Catepillar. Soft solder was used on many connections and of course, the vibration of the engine opened leaks on a regular basis. The vibration of the machine caused issues with the engine controls as well.
This 450T machine held over 800 lbs of R-22 so any leak was considered catastrophic. I finally tired of fixing soft solder and used sil-floss on all of the copper connections, replacing most of it with 304SS flare fittings. Never had any leaks on the three odd machines though one of the more problematic of the three was replaced with a Trane Ice Bank machine, a great choice.
All things considered, sil-floss/silver solder was the best choice for a weld. There is a paste (I think it was called Force) that I used even though sil-floss doesn't require paste and I liberally pasted the pipe and fittings. Using a wet rag as soon as the weld was make, I wiped off the pipe which left a nice golden colored weld without the black staining you get from Sil-Floss. It gave the job a term we used to call, "Shining the job" which contractors didn't want to see you spending time making the work "look nice".
Before I sound older than the Widow's Son of the tribe of Naphalai, I'd better quit here.
John
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On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:35:50 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

No. When I made my rounds each morning and afternoon, I always stopped there just to make sure. We had a very loud alarm system on the building.

Good tip. Never heard of that.

Nope. They didn't have A/C then so I took a later boat. Years ago, I was working at the Salk Institute in La Jolla and there was an older guy who came in to the cafeteria for coffee every afternoon. When asked how old he was, he always said, "I've lived a thousand years!" I wasn't aware of the ramifications of his comment then, but I do now.......

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