So you think it is Hot What to do

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Yes, but apparently the occasion of "global warming" will be a new "opportunity" to sell global cooling to the terrified masses, e.g. painting roofs and roads white, putting SO2 in the stratosphere to reflect sunlight, or seeding clouds to make them bigger. This will, of course, cost MONEY. All this while mathane being released by the thawing tundra makes things worse and worse. Sort of a game of "chicken" or Russian roulette on a planetary scale. Then, of course, there is the methane hydrate (Methane clathrates) locked into the oceans floors by high pressure and cold water. Cold water? Uh-oh. Thing is, that if we go to the equivalent of 1000 ppm CO2 (we are now at 375 ppm) the oceans will start belching H2S and it will be time to play "Mass Extinction 6".
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<http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&articleID=00037A5D
-A938-150E-A93883414B7F0000>
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its the end of the world as we as we know it
4:05 REM eponymous Blues MPEG audio file 1988
Worth a listen nor more.
--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
What use one more wake up call?
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I have the song. Question is do you "feel fine" about it :) If the world changes politically "I will feel fine" :)
--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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yes, the methane that is locked up in the land and especially the hydrates in the oceans is a huge concern. Those hydrates are obviously being released by deep water drilling too, one cause of the failure of the "caps" on the gushing well.
All this while mathane being released by the thawing

Somewhere between zone 5 and 6 tucked along the shore of Lake Michigan on the council grounds of the Fox, Mascouten, Potawatomi, and Winnebago
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Dan L. wrote:

There are many things that affect temperature. The permanently frozen areas have a contribution in that they reflect more sunlight back to space than non-frozen. If they melt that energy will be absorbed so adding to warming effect.
The other issue is that the ice sheets over land, mainly Antarctica and Greenland, hold much water above sea level so if they melt sea level will rise.

The precautionary principle says that we should do so. The other related issue is that fossil fuels are strictly limited, they will run out one day for sure. In the case of oil that day isn't far off. Why not convert to renewable energy now before there is a catastrophe? The sooner we do it the less it will cost.
David
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Sheesh, you are a Pollyanna, David. Give up cheap fuel when all it costs is the environment, and some slap on the wrist safety-fines, no matter how many die? At today's production, we can milk this baby for another 200 years. 200 years of profits. Don't forget who pays for them slick political campaigns, and get caught hugging a tree, or "THEY" may find someone else to play the politician. Dance with them what brought you, is the common wisdom. Dance!
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
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I am not sure that the term "fossil fuel" is correct anymore. It was once thought that oil came from fossils and limited. The earth itself, deep underground makes the oil from a chemical process. Oil may be unlimited, one just has to go deep, very deep. That is why they now call it "Carbon Fuels" not "Fossil Fuels". However, oil in every stage of production is toxic. It is best to get away from carbon fuels.
The reason, by my understanding, oil companies pay little to no taxes from off shore drilling and on public land. Almost all other land is accounted for, therefore must pay the land owner a percentage of the oil proceeds. That is why they do not want to drill on private land.
For twenty percent they can drill on my land. I will be happily rich and move to less toxic area :)
--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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The theory you are proposing is called "Abiogenic petroleum origin":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin
The way you characterize this theory:
"It was once thought that oil came from fossils and limited."
is outright wrong.
Just about everyone believes that oil has a biogenic origin.
I've looked into this more than once and I'd say this "abiogenic" stuff is nothing more than wishful thinking.

That's wrong too. "They" still call oil a fossil fuel.
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Interesting read and it has a name for the theory. I did say "I am not sure". I always leave myself an out :)

Are you sure? That statement is absolute one? No room for doubts? Has this theory been "proven" wrong? Did not seem so by reading the article.

Well then, I hope you are correct! I hope the oil runs out soon!
Before it does, I might buy a futuristic animal called a "Megodont" and a few "windups", just in case :) Go figure that one out :)
--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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Then you weren't reading the article very carefully.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin> "Although the abiogenic hypothesis was accepted by some geologists in the former Soviet Union, most geologists now consider the abiogenic formation of petroleum scientifically unsupported.[1] Although evidence exists for abiogenic formation of methane and hydrocarbon gases within the Earth,[2][3] studies indicate they are not produced in commercially significant quantities (i.e. a median abiogenic hydrocarbon content in extracted hydrocarbon gases of 0.02%).[4] The abiogenic origin of petroleum has also recently been reviewed in detail by Glasby, who raises a number of objections, including that there is no direct evidence to date of abiogenic petroleum (liquid crude oil and long-chain hydrocarbon compounds).[1]"
Are you for real, or are you just here to play games? Games are good, but not to be taken seriously. "
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- Billy
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The "coal people" and the "tar sand people" say that there is at least another 200 years of torturing the environment to go.
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- Billy
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Yes I am sure.
Read your statement again. You were trying to imply that the consensus has changed. (At least that's the way I read it.)
Of course there is room for doubt. It's just that the current consensus is for a biogenic origin. There's a very small doubt.
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Not if it is last years CO2, but it is irresponsible if it is last millennium's, or later, fuel. There is a CO2 cycle. If we burn last years carbon, we are good. If we burn last millennium's carbon, or carbon from a million years ago , it is bad. There is a difference between last years bio-mass, and carbon from 100 million years ago.
--
- Billy
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Let's pray for about three
days of a nice steady soaking rain
--
melmartinez01


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Compared to McCain/Palin?
Is that a serious question?
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In article

Last time I vote McKinney/Clemente. What do you think? (rhetorical question)
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
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Billy wrote:

Nah. It's 11C and drizzling rain here all week. No global heat wave. Therefore AGW is just a myth. Just those pinko socialists trying for world domination. Pah!
David
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Good read. <http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/08/AR201007 0804271.html>
Pinko Bill
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Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
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The Post article was posted today, just in time. Eugine Robinson must be reading this newsgroup :)
--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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Some of my favorite things are pink.
Moreover, aren't you going to be shocked in 3 months, to find that the world has gotten warmer. Maybe all the way up to 20C.
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- Billy
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