question about river birch/kousa dogwood

Hi group,
We ordered two trees from a local landscaping company who also installed them for us. We didn't know of the variety of these two trees. We showed them pictures that we took of the trees we liked. We were naive thinking that since they are the expert they would know to select the right trees. The first one was a river birch with lots of peeling barks. The one we got had a tag which says "river birch triple clumps" and does not have much peeling barks. We googled "river birch triple clumps" but couldn't find anything about it. The second one was a kousa dogwood with 2"+ flowers/bracts. The tree that was delivered to us has very tiny flowers like 1/2" :(
Any info you can give us regarding river birch triple clumps and/or kousa dogwood with very small flower bracts? Thanks so much for your help.
Sincerely A.
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On Apr 7, 7:11 am, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I'm assuming the pictures you took were of trees already well- established in gardens? The appearance of a tree well-established and with some maturity will often look quite different from the same selection in a nursery setting or a brand new young specimen. Like teenage kids, they tend to grow into themselves and develop all their attributes with age......it's not an immediate thing :-)
Clump birches are often "created" by the grower - they take multiple saplings and plant them together in the same container or planting hole, so they grow as if they were a multi-trunked tree. It's quite common, as multi-trunked trees do not occur that way naturally with great frequency. And all birches develop their bark features with age.
Kousas also grow in to their flower size - most will produce quite large bracts (2" is pretty modest, really) but again they require time to establish and mature. The pink flowering selections do tend to have slightly smaller flowers compared to the whites.
You just need some patience :-) If the trees are healthy, well-formed and planted well under the proper conditions, they will eventually grow into what you expect.
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saplings and plant them together in the same container or planting hole, so they grow as if they were a multi-trunked tree. It's quite common, as multi-trunked trees do not occur that way naturally with great frequency.
That's just not true. The number of trunks of clump birch is created by selective pruning, not by planting multiple trees (could be done but no reputible nursery would, that would be cheating), planting a number of birch close together does not a clump birch make... usually only the most dominant will survive, the rest will eventually die. Many trees develop multiple trunks naturally... I have a number of such trees growing on my property, too many birch to count... I have a huge maple that naturally grows multi-trunked, forest pansy redbud does also. All one need do is search <multi trunk trees>.
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So I guess 20+ years in the nursery industry, both in retail sales, as a buyer and as a wholesale grower, speaks for nothing? Unfortunately, you don't quite know what you're talking about.
"Reputable" nurseries do it all the time - it is an extremely common practice to develop clump-form trees at rather young ages that would take years to produce naturally. There's no "cheating" about it - it is a common practice that is done with a variety of tree species to create the look of a multiple trunked tree. And many birches, Betula nigra in particular, do not produce multiple trunks readily in the wild - they tend to be single trunk specimens under these conditions although they do often grow in colonies. Pruning does not create the same effect as it only encourages suckering shoots which seldom grow into strong trunks. If you were to investigate the propagation methods and separate the trunks of most of the commercially available "clump" birches, you would find them growing as individual trees.
From Ohio State: "Birches are usually produced and sold in clump form (also known as multitrunked or multistemmed form), rather than tree form (also known as singletrunked form), to further showcase their best ornamental feature, namely their showy bark. In forest settings, singletrunked forms predominate, which is the case for most shade or timber trees."
Note the word "produced".
and from a landscape nursery: "Birches are usually clumped in multiples of three, four or five for appearance sake. Clumping usually produces a tree with a crown or top growth equal to a single tree with three smaller trunks. Single trees can be clumped easier when smaller than as larger plants. If single plants are to be clumped, carefully remove some of the soil around the root system before planting. Water thoroughly after planting."
This technique, also known as "bundle planting", is very common in Europe and has been for many years. "The bundle planting technique is not new. Evelyn recommended it in the 17th century to create wide spreading crowns quickly. Despite the relatively common existence of notable specimens in earlier designed landscape and specimens growing naturally in almost every semi-natural woodland, many of today's designers hold a curious suspicion that trees, other than birch do not grow well in bundles. Or is it that they have just gone out of fashion or are not readily available?"
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Thank you all for the prompt and helpful responses. To the poster with the pictures, I envy your large "yard" :-) and yes, next time I will know better and go pick them out myself with the exact and proper scientific names instead of just pictures.
And yes the pictures were taken from established gardens. Also, the two trees we bought are pretty large size. The river birch is around 15 feet and the dogwood is around 12 feet. We have these trees for almost 1.5 years, and they are still under "warranty" so we want to make sure we get the right ones. I would hate to have waited 10 years and found out they are not what I want :(
I don't know how to post a picture yet. When I do, I will try to post them so you can help me identify the exact variety.
Thanks, all, again. A.
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In article
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Look at <http://tinypic.com/
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Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
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atptmt wrote:

again for professional planting (which really mostly means they have the truck to transport the trees and large moving and digging machines). Don't be quick to give up on them, give them a chance to get over transplant shock (will be like three years) and to begin showing decent growth. After like 5-7 years I'm certain you will like them... very few local nurseries that sell that caliper tree and plant them will cheat you. I'm looking forward to seeing your pictures... check out: tinypic.com
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wrote :

So I guess 20+ years in the nursery industry, both in retail sales, as a buyer and as a wholesale grower, speaks for nothing?
In 20 years you obviously learned nothing, and you never will learn anything, because those who think all knowledge begins and ends with their own are the most ignorant. You're a verbose weasler is all... when you can't out think em you out type em.
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These modern mating rituals are beyond me. I think I'll just tip-toe away.
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"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
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Sweet cheeks, it doesn't take much to out think you :-) Your lack of knowledge about plant matters is only exceeded by your perception that you have any. So keep on posting your misinformation and I'll keep on correcting you.
This could be fun!!
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Hi again,
I could not find the pictures I took of my river birch last summer so I had to retake and unfortunately there is no leaf on the tree now. So I'm not sure how useful it is with the identification, but to show the difference in the amount of barks my river birch and the river birch that I like have look at:
My river birch:
http://i43.tinypic.com/2dvijxg.jpg
The river birch that I like:
http://i41.tinypic.com/2s0hilg.jpg
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in
com:

yours are just young. they will eventually look like the ones you like. just give them a few years & they'll start looking more & more as you like them. lee
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things no two will be precisely alike, and the environment in which they're growing can make a very significant difference. Btw, the picture is heavily croped but from what I can see of how it's stabilized that tape is already digging into the bark, and that light bamboo is doing nothing by way of support but burying itself into the birch. I would redo the supporting structure, make it so it gives the tree freedom to sway without chafing or digging in... the more a young tree moves the stronger it's root system will develop... there is no need for that support after the first year. I wish I could see a more distant view so I could see how the tree is in the ground and the lay of the land so I could tell if it's planted correctly, that support system gives me concern that there are other issues.
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wrote in message

some white barked, some bronze barked, some a mixture of the two. Often the bark doesn't begin to peel in a pronounced manner until the tree matures, you don't mention the size of yours but they can get quite large. I have quite a few birch on my property, some are in pure stands and others are loners. Some prefer to have their feet wet, other's will rot with excessive moisture.
I don't presently have any dogwood but I've had them previously. I've found dogwood can present many problems and they are not a particularly long lived tree (perhaps 50 yrs) and are susceptible to many diseases and insect damage. You can't make much judgement by the size of the dogwood blooms, they vary greatly in size/quality from tree to tree, and year to year on the same tree.
You'll have to have patience, trees develop very slowly... even though nurseries make claims of fast growing, it's all relevant, birch is not really a very fast growing tree... it tends to grow almost a foot a year when very young (once a transplant becomes established) but its growth rate will slow very substantially with maturity, some years it will actually lose height and breadth as branches decay and fall, and of course trees require some pruning.
Here is a nice specimen in front of my gardening shed; fall foliage Nov 2007:
http://i44.tinypic.com/nqs37n.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/2ajqi45.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/23tfol0.jpg
That same birch in May, in front of my shed, actually the garage with my rental but I took it over as a gardening shed... that tree is not so impressive as in fall... the uncut strip of lawn hides a small stream that passes my vegetable garden and keeps it watered, that birch seems to like wet:
http://i44.tinypic.com/2q16zwx.jpg
Anytime you want a specimen planting I strongly suggest you go to the nursery and choose your own.
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