Feeding of Roses ?

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I am a very new rose grower (I hope). I have read that Miracle Gro plant food (the kind you mix in water), and fish emulsion are good basics.
Can I mix the two in one gallon of water , for one application ?
Are there better feeding products ? Is the water soluable Miracle Gro better than a pelletized fertilizer (which I know would last longer, but not as fast acting, right ?)
Thanks for any **basic** fertilizing tips !!
James
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James wrote:

I suppose you could mix them together, but I can't see why you'd want to - MG and fish emulsion simultaneously is a awful lot of nitrogen at once. Actually, if you want to use the liquid MG, use it every other time you feed, in alternation with the fish emulsion. The fish emulsion has many other soil benefits that the MG doesn't.
Tony
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Thanks Tony !!
Do you think the MG is equally good , compared to a pellitized fertilizer ?
As you suggest, I will apply MG and fish emulsion as alternate feedings.
James
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James wrote:

In my opinion (and you will get others, believe me), the question should be "Which pelletized fertilizer, and for what plant?" You say you are a rose grower (I've never grown roses). I prefer to garden as organically as possible, but I am not 100% organic. I'm guessing there is a good pelletized completely natural rose fertilizer, or perhaps several of them, out there, if you want to go that route. Talk to a nurseryman (not the 17-year-old kid working in Home Depot's garden center). Decide for yourself what you want to use.
IME, Miracle Grow is most useful diluted to 1/2 strength as a transplant solution (it's great for that), and for things that benefit from an occasional foliar feeding. A solid fertilizer properly mixed into the soil may feed more uniformly over a longer period of time.
And before you follow ANY of the above advice, go to Google, type in "growing roses", and you'll turn enough articles to keep you busy for several evenings. As you go from source to source, you'll begin to see patterns emerge: Basic points all the authors seem to agree on (note those well!) and other, seemingly more contradictory advice (get back to that later).
Tony
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James wrote:

http://www.growingroses.org /
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Very nice site, Brooklyn1 !!
Thanks !!
James
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wrote:

Roses prefer regular organic feedings and lots of it. Alternate feedings between fish emulsion and rotted cow manure every 3 weeks during the growing season. For each large established plant, I use 2 T. fish emulsion or 2 cups rotted cow manure. Back off the fertilizers 2 months before the first frost. Use fast-acting inorganic fertilizers sparingly, strategically or not at all.
I dont like to mix fertilizers--you might end up with undesirable results. Good luck with your roses, they can be a challenge.
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Thanks to Tony and Phisherman for very good points. I will take these points , and see how things go !!
James
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Hellloo.
"Are there better feeding products?" A damn fine question that. so by the numbers, let's take it from the beginning.
Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis (Amazon.com product link shortened) /ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid06815176&sr=1-1 p.26
"Negative impacts on the soil food web Chemical fertilizers negatively impact the soil food web by killing off entire_ portions of it. What gardener hasn't seen what table salt does to a slug? Fertilizers are salts; they suck the water out of the bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and_ nematodes in the soil. Since these microbes are at the very foundation of the_ soil food web nutrient system, you have to keep adding fertilizer once you start_ using it regularly. The microbiology is missing and not there to do its job, feeding the plants.
It makes sense that once the bacteria, fungi, nematodes, and protozoa are_ gone, other members of the food web disappear as well. Earthworms, for example, lacking food and irritated by the synthetic nitrates in soluble nitrogen_ fertilizers, move out. Since they are major shredders of organic material, their_ absence is a great loss. Without the activity and diversity of a healthy food web, you not only impact the nutrient system but all the other things a healthy soil_ food web brings. Soil structure deteriorates, watering can become problematic,"_ pathogens and pests establish themselves and, worst of all, gardening becomes_ a lot more work than it needs to be.
If the salt-based chemical fertilizers don't kill portions of the soil food web, rototilling will. This gardening rite of spring breaks up fungal hyphae, decimates worms, and rips and crushes arthropods. It destroys soil structure and_ eventually saps soil of necessary air. Again, this means more work for you in_ the end. Air pollution, pesticides, fungicides, and herbicides, too, kill off important members of the food web community or chase" them away. Any chain_ is only as strong as its weakest link: if there is a gap in the soil food web, the system will break down and stop functioning properly."
--

Google "Dead Zones" to see what nitrate fertilizers are doing to the
oceans.
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Billy, your rambling, psychotic , cut and paste response included the following claim:
"Chemical fertilizers (henceforth referred to as chemferts) are made from petroleum, for which we have gone to war."
Since you have made this claim in public, can you provide proof ? I am a student of world history and world events, and I know of no instance in which the United States of American has gone to war for petroleum products. Of course, there is plenty of oil in Iraq, but we have not taken one gallon of it yet, and I see no administration plans to do so.
Do you have some sort of mental disorder, obssessing on gasoline products ?
Do you also hate the United States of America ? Part of the Hate America First crowd ??
Is there some medication that you may have skipped today ?
James
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Well, you got me there. It's probably just a coincidence that most of the natural gas deposits are around the Caspian Sea, and the Caucus Mountains, and that Afghanistan straddles the intended pipeline to get it out. http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/ieo/nat_gas.html
At least I didn't mention the 5 military bases that we are setting up next to Venezuela, which has the greatest oil reserves in the world, oh, damn.
You are quite right, there is no reason to get into why coalition forces left the Baghdad museum unprotected, while it threw a cordon of troops around the oil ministry, or Iraq's history of pumping its own oil, that will now be produced by foreigners, but this is getting off the topic of what fertilizer will work best for you.

Loss of top soil, global warming, insecticides, Operation Iraqi Liberation, industrial chemicals in our drinking water, no, no, I don't think so.

Love the country, I just don't think that the populous and the leadership are on the same page. You think the plutocrates are America? Hmmm.

I take them after dinner;O)

But moving along, I'm surprised that you, a gardener, are unfamiliar with how chemferts are made.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Haber Fritz Haber (9 December 1868 29 January 1934) was a German chemist, who received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1918 for his development for synthesizing ammonia, important for fertilizers and explosives.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process The Haber process, also called the HaberBosch process, is the nitrogen fixation reaction of nitrogen gas and hydrogen gas, over an enriched iron or ruthenium catalyst, to produce ammonia.
As mentioned, chemferts like ammonium nitrate (NH4+ and NO3-) are salts that kill some microbes, leaving the rest of them in jeopardy, you did read the report that I prepared for you, didn't you?
The over application of chemferts speeding up the disappearance of organic material from the soil, requiring ever larger applications of chemferts. This excessive application of chemferts poisons potable water, as in our mid-west, and creates huge dead zones in the ocean at the mouths of rivers, that used to teem with sea food for human consumption.
That bit on humus is also very important because it conserves water, and only about .35% of the water in the world is drinkable, but then you probably knew that.
And the report boiled down to: you could leave the world in worse or better shape than you found it. It is your choice, but all of us, and your descendants will have to live with it.
Remember, all the material is in:
Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis (Amazon.com product link shortened) /ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid06815176&sr=1-1
Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale Permaculture (Paperback) by Toby Hemenway (Amazon.com product link shortened) 580298/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid71266976&sr=1-1
Oh, yeah there's a couple of good riffs in: The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael Pollan (Amazon.com product link shortened) 83/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid06815576&sr=1-1 about using petroleum for fertilizer p. 41-47, and p. 146-9. Michael Pollan opines that it's a shame that we can't drink the oil, because calorie for calorie, it would be cheaper than using it for fertilizer.
No, there's no need to thank me.
Is there something else that I could help you with?
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
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No Billy, I don't need lecturing about political matters when all I asked about was rose feeding. To go from that subject to the Hate America First rant is mind-boggling, and leads me to believe that you should see a shrink.
James
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It was one line out of, how many? You be the dude who is obsessing. Good luck with that.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
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In article

And you didn't listen. You pick 6 words out of 185 lines to tweak out on. I bet you don't listen to your kids either. Probably 'cause they know more than you. You know, so why bother with the facts? There i s even a book out, just for you: Unscientific America: How Scientific Illiteracy Threatens our Future by Chris Mooney, and Sheril Kirshenbaum <(Amazon.com product link shortened) ns/dp/0465013058/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid72177921&sr=1-8>

Yes, Rush, is that all you got? Why do you hate America so much as to turn your back on the truth? What are you, an agent provacateur? Trying to distract people from the truth? Cointel never happened, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO The Church Committee never confirmed it, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committe Wonders of wonders, the Rockefeller Commission on the same subject has been neutered. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_President%27s_Commission_on_CI A_activities_within_the_United_States

A real classic. He's just crazy folks, a little prefrontal lobotomy will tune him right up. How long you been a cheer leader, James? Don't you read? Even the corporate news has to admit that people don't trust the government. People don't trust the Republicans. People don't trust the Democrats. We know we are being screwed. Goldman Sachs sold derivatives that they knew the seller was betting on to go bust. The client, John Paulson, made over $3.7 billion from the collapse of the housing market. <http://finance.yahoo.com/news/SEC-accuses-Goldman-Sachs-of-apf-152302072 2.html?x=0> <http://www.democracynow.org/2010/4/19/headlines#1
Fraudulent, Abusive and Deceptive' Practices Among Debt-settlement firms <http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/22/AR201004 2205523.html> <http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/ConsumerNews/undercover-investigation-debt-set tlement-companies/story?id453587>
Looting Main Street Matt Taibbi on How the Nations Biggest Banks Are Ripping Off American Cities with Predatory Deals http://www.democracynow.org/2010/4/12/looting_main_street_matt_taibbi_on
An all the while, 31 out of every tax dollar, goes down the military-industrial complex rat hole.
James is beyond denial. He is an enabler.
There is some serious bad stuff goin' down all around the world. Most of the western countries are lined up to get Iraq's oil, and are prepared to put their own countries throug "economic restructuring". (America, Britain, Greece, most of Europe, if I can believe my lyin' eyes) Selling off public assets, and charging more for public services.
Global Ruling Class: Billionaires and How They Made It by Prof. James Petras Even as the world's billionaires grew in number from 793 in 2006 to 946 this year, major mass uprisings became commonplace in China and India. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aidQ59
Sorry to lay it on ya, but it will be comin' soon to a block near you, if it hasn't already, like Flint, MI. The last thing anybody wants is to have to go to the streets, but that is the only way things get changed.

Is a pile of crud.

Meanwhile, all of my organic tomatoes are up, just lovin' the chicken manure, and the alfalfa (lucerne) mulch. My biggest pea (1/20) is about 2' tall. Twenty six of my organic peppers are in, 6 more to go. Next comes the squash (8) and cabbage (12), and in 2 weeks the jalapeos (15) and the melons (6). I have one repair on the drip line where some hot coals got tossed. Next up is a 72 cell tray with Golden Bantum Corn (forth year), lettuce, spinach (I know, I know), calendulas, more sunflowers, and bush beans (24). It is all lookin' fine, and trackin' really well for a good year ;O)
I particularly want to thank Fran and Emilie for putting up with me, while I'm screaming "FIRE".
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
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Hi Billy I just snipped all the "offensive political crud" LOL

Oh Billy we still love ya anyway wit' all your ramblings. You do usually stick on something good about gardening too. You are really getting the foodies set out aren't you! Do you do a lot of canning etc.? I have just gotten my tomato plants in the ground. We have had some nice days in the low 80s but night temps are still in the upper 40s. I have only 4. I have a couple of peppers to go out tomorrow, I think, and spinach and lettuce growing all ready. Zuccs for later. The boysenberries are in full bloom.
I have been keeping busy getting everything all gorgeous for a CA Native Plant Society Garden Tour which was today. I think there were at least 300 people went thru here and I answered questions and talked to them ALL. Hope you have a bumper crop this year. I do wish the rain would stop; enough already.
Emilie NorCal PS seen any blue-jays lately? Ha PS 2 I am too pooped to proof read this, so (sic)

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Them's bragging rights. I see just down the road from you got .9" of rain, and we got less than .2" from the last storm. We'll see how this next one works out. Last year was the second horrible year in a row for me. Like everybody else, my tomatoes were late, and then the sun went down behind the hill. I want back to back cornucopias. This year, one tomato already had two tomatoes on it, when it went into the ground, and half the others were alredy making flowers. My feeling is that nature will take its course more easily and earlier this year.
This is my first year with a really good grow light. Next year I'll need to work on my timing, as I still haven't started any spinach, and could easily use a couple of dozen more lettuce.
Shoosh girl, you're gonna have the Audubon Society kickin' in your door, callin' our Stellar Jays, "Blue Jays". Everytime I does it, some card carrin' bird watcher comes crawlin' out of the woodwork to correct my corruption of the genus Cyanocitta. Yeah, we got a momma who's working hard building a nest, carrying twigs, and anti-static cloth away. Mostly got black hooded chickadees (sp?), and a magnificent red headed wood pecker, which I thought was a Northern Flicker, but I'm beginning to think is a Pileated Woodpecker. Its call is, to my ears, exotic. We also had some large, black, birds that are 2 -3' from tip to tip. It was the first time I actually heard the whoosh, whoosh of a bird's wings as it flew overhead. We have some robin red-breasts too, but they will have moved on by Summer.
I was going to try my hand at canning last year. Had the jars and was all set, but like the rest of the tomatoes, the San Marzanos were late, and then they had a bit of blossom end rot, and the up-shot of the season was that we got a dozen serving of spaghetti sauce out of six plants.
If you have any pictures of your yard, I'd love to see them. You can reach me at snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com, if you have any to share.
Time for me to go toes up, too.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
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Hi Billy I just snipped all the "offensive political crud" LOL

Oh Billy we still love ya anyway wit' all your ramblings. You do usually stick on something good about gardening too. You are really getting the foodies set out aren't you! Do you do a lot of canning etc.? I have just gotten my tomato plants in the ground. We have had some nice days in the low 80s but night temps are still in the upper 40s. I have only 4. I have a couple of peppers to go out tomorrow, I think, and spinach and lettuce growing all ready. Zuccs for later. The boysenberries are in full bloom.
I have been keeping busy getting everything all gorgeous for a CA Native Plant Society Garden Tour which was today. I think there were at least 300 people went thru here and I answered questions and talked to them ALL. Hope you have a bumper crop this year. I do wish the rain would stop; enough already.
Emilie NorCal PS seen any blue-jays lately? Ha PS 2 I am too pooped to proof read this, so (sic)

You're a little bit ahead of me, Emilie. My bosyenberries are not quite blooming stage but they'er getting there fast. It's going to be a bumper crop and that's all right by me. My raspberries plants are right behind them. We've had the perfect Spring weather here Puget Sound.
Will also be feeding my roses and also my tomatoes. Bought a Black Heirloom Tomato and a Russian Tomato and one other (must have a normal name lol). I have them in pots on my deck which gets the afternoon and on into evening sun. I just gotta keep these babies watered.
Started some flowers seeds during winter and some of them are doing great while others I'll have to try again. My new "greenhouse" was a learn as I/they grow adventure. My flowers and veggies go hand in hand with each other and I would miss either one of them if I had to just choose species to grow. God provided just enough space for my little home and my little garden spots with my little lawn. And then my 5 dwarf apple trees (lot's of bloom coming on!) and also my 4 dwarf cherry trees which are also full of bloom.
Got me an Ozette potato and only with time will I see the funny little taters; same goes for my buttermilk and acorn squash.
Spring is such a wonderful time of the year. Loving it.
Donna E Munn in WA Zone 8
Strawberries are something new for me this year but they are growing fast and seem to like not only where I put them but what I put them in. Havested enough rhubard for two pies but will wait for more growth on my other plants.
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[...]
Do you have to cover them to keep the birds, squirrels, etc. off the strawberries?
I was getting so frustrated, I built a moveable cover out of PVC pipe and netting. The pipe was cheap, but the corners added up a little. Never mind; well spent!
My strawberry bed is small (4x4) so I built the frame exactly to fit. I built it 2' high in case I wanted to move it somewhere else (taller plants) some day.
So far, so good!
Persephone
It is so light, I can just pick it up, set aside, harvest berries, and replace.
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[...]

strawberries?
Went to a great garage sell and was GIVEN as in free 2 xlarge window flower boxes. They both looked horrible as they had way to much sun in their life. Bought the right kind of spray paint and they look better then new and even match my home now. I have the boxes on my deck with my tomatoes and flowers pots. I'm not anticipating any bird problems as the strawberry are so near my front door. But then again, this is my first attempt. And my bird feeder is just a few feet away.
Billy, I'll let you know about the Ozette potatoes. They were given out free, 1 per customer, at one of the local garden club sale. It found a home right in front of my gooseberries lol.
Donna in WA
I was getting so frustrated, I built a moveable cover out of PVC pipe and netting. The pipe was cheap, but the corners added up a little. Never mind; well spent!
My strawberry bed is small (4x4) so I built the frame exactly to fit. I built it 2' high in case I wanted to move it somewhere else (taller plants) some day.
So far, so good!
Persephone
It is so light, I can just pick it up, set aside, harvest berries, and replace.
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Our mailbox is right near our front door.
This year we had 2 birds get the mailbox about half full of nesting material before we found it.
Good luck,
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