Diazinon replacements...not!

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I did not ask this question to start a war. Pesticides have their place. I prefer to use as few as possible. I spot treat for weeds with a hand sprayer, cut the grass long, and only use organic fertilizers on the lawn. The problem is my lawn is in very poor condition. (I got it in this condition.) I guess I agree that I have a marginal grub problem, but the lawn was already open and patchy and it is getting worse as the grubs concentrate on the once healthier areas. I am actually kind of peeved that I have had to use three different poisons on my lawn and still with no results.
All that 'escapee' wrote is true, but as a pesticide it NEEDS to have those properties. Just like a gun would not be a gun if it did not kill. As for why Diazinon was banned. Newer research found that it might be a special hazard to children. Under new EPA regs, to keep it on the market manufacturers would have had to do new expensive tox studies. The margins were just not there for the product. So they and the EPA signed consent decree to phase out residential uses.
Quoting the EPA: "EPA is conducting a review of diazinon as part of its effort to address the tough, new safety standards established by the 1996 Food Quality Protection Act... This action adds a greater measure of protection for children by eliminating the most important sources of children's exposure."
escapee wrote:

I think they outlawed it because stupid people were spraying it on golf courses (against the label directions) and killing people, or broadcasting it by the hundreds of pounds on their lawns whether they had grubs or not and contaminating the ground water. I don't think they banned it because I use it once or twice every July to spray my apple tree to prevent apple maggots because malathion isn't strong enough. (it is listed for this.)
Bob
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Diazinon is an organophosphate, a neurotoxin. All pesticides classified as organophosphates have been reclassified as restricted use pesticides as current research has shown that their attributes are far outweighed by their health hazards. Diazinon residue is present in approximately 75% of residences tested and is very long lasting.
Pesticides do not have to be environmental or health hazards to be effective. Beneficial nematodes and milky spore ARE considered pesticides (bio-organic ones to be sure but pesticides nonetheless).
Concentrate on bringing your lawn back to health before heading for the chemicals. You may find you don't need any afterall.
pam - gardengal
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On 26 Jun 2004 08:07:47 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net (germ) opined:

So maybe you need a fourth. Try using beneficial nematodes. I guarantee if you water properly, stop using pesticides, and use certified organic fertilizer with a nice top dress ONCE with about a fourth inch of compost you will get rid of the problem. If you recently used pesticides, all three of them, nematodes will most likely be killed.
Oh, you didn't start a war. You got very thoughtful information from several people, both synthetic and organic remedies.

The fight to remove it from the market went on for a really long time. There are superior remedies which have been outlined here. You tried using synthetic pesticides by your own admission and have not had success. You used three types. Doesn't that tell you something? You are literally killing everything useful in the soil. If you had the biota which a healthy soil has, this problem would not exist.

Yeah, so doesn't that bother you? All some of us are saying is that you are killing your soil, and your turf is not recovering because of it. There is a wonderful book called Secrets to Great Soil. It's one of the best books on soil, particularly for people who don't want to read lengthy blather which makes no sense. Maybe your library has it.
Victoria

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On 25 Jun 2004 16:21:09 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net (germ) wrote:

You didn't say where you are Jim, but County Extension Service Agents have good information on how to take care of problems like yours.
Do a Google search for ("Your County") Extension Service.
Regards,
Hal
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I feel your pain. Thanks to Diazinon my grub problem went away several years ago. If it returns I still have 2 qt containers that'll last me for a LONG time. I've used Garden Techs Sevin for ant control in my garden walkways to no avail. Mixed as prescribed, nada, doubled it, still won't kill the ants. Thats it on that product for me. Either the bugs are mutating or the products are getting worse<sigh>.
Grandpa
germ wrote:

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I got a recommendation from a professional applicator. On a timing basis it is too late to control this year with nematodes and/or milky spore and many commercial chemicals. The only thing he could offer is to use a pyrethrum/permethrin as a knock down insecticide, and combine it with imidacloprid for a lasting hit. In other words use two things together that mimic diazinon's quick knockdown and 30 day half life.
I could start a regimen of inoculating the soil with milky spore to get protection for the future.
Jim

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You only need use milky spore once for a 20 year management of grubs. It works. Make sure you see if there is a date on the bag. I do believe it is dated, but I could be wrong. You will have much better success using the techniques listed in prior posts.
Victoria
On 26 Jun 2004 15:32:56 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net (germ) opined:

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On 6/25/04 4:21 PM, in article
wrote:

I have read all the posts to date and found them interesting. I have an experience with lawn larvae-leather jackets we call them here in BC, Canada. The ads on TV and radio told us that we had to use this that and the other thing to get rid of these nasty grubs or they will kill our lawns. So I thought I should try them...(damn, I got sucked in again)! But, I had some resistance to the use of pesticides so thought I will do my own experiment. I sprayed only half of my lawn. Almost instantly, I saw some results...birds! They were eating the grubs that were affected by the application of that pesticide. I ran out and tried to chase them away but when I returned to the house, back they would come. I can only imagine the affect this pesticide would have on their young. There was no difference between the sprayed lawn and the unsprayed lawn!!!!!! I have never used that baby bird killer product since! I have no idea what the problem is with your lawn. How many more pesticides are there that you could use? Maybe you should try dynamite. It probably won't solve the problem either but maybe the noise will make you happy. And as far as the 'harmful' larvae, well, give the birds a chance... Trusting Nature is not like trusting your local politician...Nature does not lie. Gary Fort Langley, BC Canada
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-snip-

What was the product you were using? Your description gives me an idea for an organic way to rid your lawn of grubs. [which might actually be what you applied]
Spray your lawn with a product that makes the soil uncomfortable for the grubs. [tabasco? something that makes it hard for them to breathe? . . .. ] When they come to the surface to escape, the birds get them. The trick would be in finding the product that is noxious to the grubs but the birds like to taste.
Jim
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On 25 Jun 2004 16:21:09 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net (germ) wrote:
:) I moved this year and the new house had a poor lawn. I have much :) improved it but I am having grub problems. I have tried 3 of the :) products now in the stores: season lawn control, triacide?, and sevin. :) None have worked, peel up a patch of sod and I still see live grubs :) each time!
The Bayer product that contains imidacloprid works well. Can use it anytime during the growing season when other products (diazinon, sevin, whatever-thrin) are best used at key times to be effective. Should be able to find it at the Home Depot/Lowes type stores. But also, the large grubs you are seeing now are not doing the damage to your lawn..they are coming up to pupate to turn in to the beetle that is seen flying about at night. No matter what you use there is a good chance of seeing live ones this time of year that don't seem to be effected.
Lar. (to e-mail, get rid of the BUGS!!
It is said that the early bird gets the worm, but it is the second mouse that gets the cheese.
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