I have a large established bed of purple cone flowers. I recently purchased some red and some white cone flowers also. I was told that these colors come from hybrid plants, so my question is: Will they cross polinate or will they retain their true colors? Anyone have any experience with this?
Enuf
snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (Enuf) expounded:
They'll cross, and the results won't be as vigorous, but you could get some interesting combos! But I'll bet the purples will win out in the end.
Assuming that all the plants involved are E. purpurea and not some other species of Echinacea like E. pallida or E. angustifolia, they will readily cross-pollinate with each other. What varieties are the 'red' and 'white' plants? Presumably the white plants are 'Alba' or 'White Swan' or some other common albino cultivar. White coneflower cultivars are typically less vigorous than purple varieties. I would expect the crosses between your regular coneflowers and the 'red' variety to be of normal vigor though. The actual plants you put in the ground should retain their variety traits, although you can expect them to produce quite variable progeny via seed. If you deadhead immediately after the bracts turn black, you don't have to worry about self-seeding. Don't be surprised if the white plants 'fade' after several seasons. If you haven't stuck them in the ground yet, I would suggest getting rid of the whites altogether and replacing them with a pigmented variety, or some shasta daisies or something.
Micah Mabelitini
Probably 'Ruby Star' or something.
Micah Mabelitini
The plants themselves will stay whatever color they were. They are perennials. The only part of the plant which will produce other colors will be the seeds, but the Echinacea purpurea PLANT will stay the same. I've not heard of red, where did you get red Echniacea? Oh, unless, of course, common names...and all.
That's it - Ruby Star and White Swan. If they tend to cross, I'll keep them separated. Would about 50 ft. separation work, or will the bees & butterflies cross pollinate them at any distance? Right now,I'm thinking a bed of red & white coneflowers along with blue russian sage. Since my soil tends to be dry, that combination should work together.
Enuf
There's always the chance of a stray cross, but 50 feet should be sufficient to prevent most occurrences.
Micah Mabelitini
I've yet to see a white variety of the coneflower that floats my boat. They tend to be a muddy, tannish white, rather than a clear bright white. I agree with the poster who suggests a shasta daisy or some other white daisy if you want that color in a particular area of the garden. However, if you're growing them particularly for the shape of the flower and using it in arrangements or something, I guess that's different.
"gregpresley" expounded:
I agree, Pallida is very....insipid, I guess. And not very vigorous, at least for me.
White purple coneflower isn't E. pallida. It is several different cultivated varieties of E. purpurea, namely 'Alba' and 'White Swan' (and a few other less common varieties). The 'pale' in pale purple coneflower refers to the pollen color, which usually appears white, as opposed to other species of Echinacea which have yellow pollen. Ligule color has NO bearing on the differentiation between E. purpurea and E. pallida. In fact, many species of Echinacea, including E. purpurea and E. pallida, have a ligule color which varies along a north-south cline, with more darkly colored ligules in northern populations, giving way to nearly white ligules in more southerly populations. Even pollen color is not always sufficient to identify E. pallida in the wild, as there is some intergradation with E. sanguinea and E. simulata. As far as differentiating E. purpurea from E. pallida though, the plants look very much different, with E. pallida having more lanceolate leaves and a taproot, as well as other distinguishing characters. E. purpurea is the only species of Echinacea with a fibrous root system. Ligule color is only useful for differentiating E. paradoxa from other species, because it has bright yellow ligules while all other species of Echinacea have purple/magenta/pink ligules.
As far as the lack of vigor in the albino cultivars, I totally agree. In my experience, they grow slower, are less resistant to pests, and they really aren't white. The OP mentioned that they were doing a red/white/blue thing, using E. purpurea 'Ruby Star' and 'White Swan' for the red and white. They will come to find that their red/white/blue motif is actually a magenta/piss-yellow/blue motif.
Micah Mabelitini
Do you live in the deep south or southwest? I would expect the albinos to appear more white in hotter climates. Also, 'White Swan' tends to be more white than 'Alba' and some of the others.
Micah Mabelitini
The plant will remain the same, it's the seeds which will hybridize, possibly. Just plant them where you want. If you notice seeds germinating, either let them come up to see what you have, or pull the plants and move those. The original plants will not change from their original color.
My 'White Swan' are a clear, bright white.
E.pallida is the spp.
I'd agree with Vic - my 'White Swan' is a true bright white, bloomed all summer and is quite vigorous. And I certainly do not live in a hot climate. Personally, I find the purple and pink forms rather insipid - very washed out in tone.
pam - gardengal
Color interpretation is a highly subjective thing. I have personally never seen an albino example of E. purpurea that can match say, a shasta daisy as far as whiteness goes (not that I care much for shasta daisies...I greatly prefer a white coneflower). E. purpurea is a highly variable plant regarding ligule color...temperature, soil conditions and precipitation all affect ligule development. There is also a good bit of color variability among the different albino cultivars. 'White Swan' is one of the whiter ones. The somewhat less common 'Alba' on the other hand, is more of a pale yellow-green color (probably the reason it's less common). As far as the purple types being insipid, most do have that washed out appearance, though some cultivars like 'Ruby Star' are much improved in that regard. As far as plant vigor, the albino cultivars are undeniably less vigorous than the common purple varieties as a whole (you would be hard-pressed to find an authoritative source that states otherwise), though they still do pretty good. Wild E. purpurea is a *very* vigorous plant.
Micah Mabelitini
I'm in zone 3 and I've noticed that over the past 4 yrs my White swan gets whiter and whiter. It used to be more yellowish now very white. Some of the smaller flowers that develop later int he year are more yellowish - but the big ones are definitely white.
Yes, south central Texas.
Since they are prolific here in my climate and produce flowers most of the year, if I keep the pinks and purple deadheaded, I have a pretty decent color. I have taken to scattering seed everywhere and I have pretty much an entire garden full of it. I dig many out and pot them up in spring for people who trade at the garden clubs. For some reason, they love when I bring E.purpurea and E.pallida. To me these are very common, but to them, well, they love them.
Vanimaux expounded:
Yea, I know, that's the white one I grew.
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